SPEAKER_02: 0:54

Today on the Finance Friends podcast, we're excited to welcome someone whose historically reflects both the client and challenges of professional sport. Jack Trengrove. He talks about resilience and building a career beyond sport. He was drafted as number two pick in the 2009 AFL draft to the Melbourne Demons, where he quickly made his mark. And at the age of 20, that's right, 20, became one of the youngest AFL captain in AFL history. Unfortunately, his career was hampered with injuries, although this was a bit of a light bulb moment, an opportunity for Jack to reflect and realise that he needs to think about what's beyond football because he might not play 300 games. So he studied commerce and now he works as an equity analyst at Lanyan Asset Management. He shares his story about discipline, leadership, and resilience. This is a must-listen to episode. Good afternoon, Jack. Thanks for having me. Welcome to the Fine Strengths podcast. It's nice to be in Adelaide. Haven't been to Adelaide to do a podcast before, so so welcome. How's your day been?

SPEAKER_01: 2:10

It's been great. Adelaide's put it on for you guys, so hopefully you enjoy your time here.

SPEAKER_02: 2:17

Yeah, it's well, other than the uh mishap of trying to get the recording studio set up, but we've had a good chat for the last 40 minutes. That is good. Um let's do it again. So uh tell us a little bit about what you do now.

SPEAKER_01: 2:31

Yeah, sure. So um I am an analyst at Lanyan Asset Management. So uh Lanyan is a long-only value-oriented equity fund manager. Um we're based here in Adelaide, but we've got a an office in Sydney as well. Um my boss Dave Prescott founded the business uh 15 years ago. Um, and we run money for institutional clients, family offices, and a number of private investors. Um when I say we're value-oriented, we I guess if I tell you about what the average day for me looks like, it's literally trolling through financial reports, meeting with executive teams and trying to, I guess, uncover an undervalued company listed here in Australia or globally, um, one that we think is a presents a good investment opportunity and hopefully we can make some money out of it for our clients.

SPEAKER_02: 3:23

Yeah. So how do you determine what is market value and what's undervalued versus overvalued?

SPEAKER_01: 3:29

Yeah, that's a a brilliant question. Um so I guess there's lots of different ways that people invest. Um we're probably old school, what you call value investors, as I said. So, you know, we find a company and we determine what the value of that company is or what we believe it is worth, and then obviously we try to buy it when it's at a discount of that value, and then if it realizes the value, then we'll sell it. Um how to determine what that value is. There's lots of different ways to do it, but um, we try to predict what the future cash flows of that business will be and then discount them back to today's price, and then you can determine what a value is. There's also different ways, like you can use um certain multiples of earnings that um potentially there's been a transaction recently of a peer of that company or something in similar in that industry, and then you can sort of use that multiple and compare it against the one that you're looking at and see if there's differences a few different ways, but we think that's the safest and best way to generate strong returns through um whatever cycle we're going through over a long period of time.

SPEAKER_02: 4:34

And you've been able to like the proof is in the pudding because the results of the fund have been exceptional. How long's the fund been running for and how long have you been at the business for?

SPEAKER_01: 4:44

Yeah, so this fund's been running since 2019. Um I started at Lanyan in 2019, and um, yeah, thankfully we've had some pretty strong returns. Um, the returns look very different to what market returns look like. So, you know, we run a pretty concentrated portfolio, so 15 to 20 stocks. Um, there's really no constraints. So we can invest in companies listed overseas, locally, various sizes, from the largest cap companies to very small cap across all sorts of industries. Um, and we love that flexibility. And yeah, over the course of the what is it, six years now, we've been able to deliver returns that are above market returns and um you know keep our clients happy and hopefully that uh continues.

SPEAKER_02: 5:33

Yeah, and what do you most enjoy about your current job?

SPEAKER_01: 5:36

Yeah, that's another really good question. I think the thing that I like is that no day's ever the same. So I'm a pretty curious type of person and love learning and developing. Um and we have the privilege of sitting down with some of the best executive teams in Australia and trying to decipher through their company and understand um the business and what factors are at play and what the business is going to look like in three to five years' time. Um so that element I really like learning. And, you know, we could be looking at a an iron ore miner based out of the Pilbara one day, and then the next day we're looking at a little unique industrial company um with a really small market cap based out of Sydney, out in the outer suburbs. So, you know, they're very different, and no day, as I said, is ever the same. And I really like that um that change up because it's not mundane in in any way.

SPEAKER_02: 6:27

I'd imagine you'd be continuously learning all the time about industry, about you know, leadership strategy.

SPEAKER_01: 6:34

Oh, definitely. Um and I that's the bit that I love most. You meet some really unique people that have had incredible experiences. You know, my boss has been in the industry his whole life, um, and he's still learning every day as well. So there never is a point where you reach where you think I'm there. Um one of the unique things about the industry, it's the most humbling industry ever. Yeah. You feel like you're getting somewhere and then you peg back down because something that you forecast went completely wrong. Um so it's it's great in that way. And um, yeah, I feel like the day you stop wanting to learn is the day you you should be done.

SPEAKER_02: 7:09

Yeah. Well it's quite interesting because you don't actually have to get all your calls right. You just got to get more than 50% right, especially when you're highly concentrated, and you should be be able to outperform the market quite quite easily.

SPEAKER_01: 7:21

Yeah, definitely. And don't worry, we get so many wrong. Um but as you say, if you get the majority right, then over time that should um generate strong returns. And um thankfully so far we've had more right than wrong. Um, but you're only as good as your most recent performance, and that doesn't determine what you're going to do in the future either. So um it it keeps you on your toes.

SPEAKER_02: 7:44

That's right. Um and so you've been doing this for six years, and did you finish football and go straight into this? Or was there a transition period between finishing football at Port Adelaide and and starting this role?

SPEAKER_01: 7:59

Yeah, so if I go back all the way back, um, you know, my journey, I've been you know, my career itself in the AFL, it didn't reach any spectacular heights. Um, but what I am, I'm absolutely grateful for the opportunity to play within the AFL system. It was a childhood dream, and I'm one of the lucky ones that got to, you know, live that out. Um so I got drafted to the Melbourne Footy Club back at the end of 2009, um, hung around there for eight years and went through all sorts of um ups and downs, which we can touch on in time, um, like any AFL footballer, and then got the opportunity to come back to Port Adelaide. And throughout those ups and downs, I had a few injuries um and was always keen on my studies through school. I think mum and dad really drilled into me from the outset that you've got to have balance in life, and I'm a big advocate for that. Um certainly didn't have all my eggs in the one basket.

SPEAKER_02: 8:53

And so just touch it, how important is that, especially when you're going through your you know, your football career, you had a lot of injuries that were pretty challenging injuries, from my understanding. How important is that balance to get you through that challenging time?

SPEAKER_01: 9:06

Yeah, it's critical. And if I could give any advice to not only footballers but anyone in life, it's just to have that balance because you know, we can think about I've got plenty of examples of past teammates, current players who have gone through this transition period. Um and I I personally view it as being the biggest issue um facing athletes at the moment, and one that no one's ever really nailed, because um, you know, you go from being you know full on in everything, giving your whole life to a particular sport or um a certain goal, and then that can be ripped up very quickly because the industry's incredibly ruthless. Um, one injury, you know, some poor performance, one coach that doesn't think you're any good anymore, and suddenly you're out of a job. And if you've committed your whole life to that and you realize one day you're out of a job, then suddenly you're you know behind the eight ball and you know, in a challenging period trying to figure out what you're gonna do because um using AFL as an example, I think the uh average career length's like four years, so it's not very long. And if you've committed a lot of time and energy to that, get to the end of it, you're suddenly, you know, 22, 23 years old and have no education. And um, so for me personally, um, if I think about my example, is that I studied straight away when I got into the system and um the injuries that I had were probably a blessing to a degree because it made me really think about what life's going to look like after football, because I had a surgeon one day tell me that you may never run again, let alone play footy, and that was at the age of 21. So it was um you know, pretty confronting at the time, but I call it a blessing, and I'm so thankful for it because it meant that I did get thinking about what that next um I guess career was going to look like. So I was lucky enough to hang around, as I said, for another eight years after that. But the day that I finished footy, I walked into the job at Lanyan. So um when you talk about that transition period, I was extremely fortunate that it wasn't it was quite a smooth transition for me.

SPEAKER_02: 11:15

So did you s was that the the light bulb moment where you thought I need to study, or were you studying prior to that you know, surge and saying you might not ever do that again?

SPEAKER_01: 11:25

No, I was studying, um, but you know, there's studying and then there's studying. It was sort of ticking along in the background. I picked up a commerce degree as soon as I got drafted because as I said, I worked really hard at school to get the best scores possible. Um so I wanted to utilize that. But the commerce degree was certainly on the back burner and I was just ticking along and um just scraping by and then this injury where I was like, far out, if I don't have a job next year, what am I doing? It took me on a really unique journey where I started, you know, making the most of what strong networks are within football clubs, um, particularly the Melbourne Football Club, met some incredibly successful business people and tried to figure out exactly where I wanted to take my career, um, if footy was to f to finish or when it was inevitably going to finish. Um, and that led me down, you know, an incredible path of meeting unique people doing all sorts of different things. Um and at that point I sort of could understand exactly what I wanted to do, and then really started working towards that. So I actually finished my unit degree while I was playing, yeah, and then um got the opportunity to do some work experience.

SPEAKER_02: 12:33

Uh one of them and I was gonna say, what did that involve?

SPEAKER_01: 12:36

Yeah, so um initially it was like some financial advice when I was in Melbourne and realized that while I enjoyed it, I didn't think it was something that I really wanted to pursue. So if anything, it put a line through that. And then when I moved back to Adelaide, I got introduced to Dave Prescott, who I've alluded to, he's the founder of Lanyan, and we hit it off from the start. You know, I think our values were very aligned. Um, I loved his passion. Um, I think he's a bit of a wizard when it comes to investing. Um, and he offered me the chance to come sit on his shoulder on my day off uh that we got each week. So I did that for the two years I was at Port, and then I was at a point where I probably could have tried to keep playing footy if I wanted to, but then I was like, I'm 28 years old, I know what I want to do next. I've got a job there sitting and waiting for me. I'm ready to just jump into it.

SPEAKER_02: 13:32

So you're clearly content with your football career today or content enough and more looking forward to your your next career?

SPEAKER_01: 13:38

I think that's probably the one. Are you ever content? I don't know, uh, with a footy career. Um I think I I knew that I tried everything I could at that point. And um, yeah, my career looked very like the f the first three years of my career, I was playing a lot of games and getting lots of opportunities and was named the captain of the Melbourne Footy Club as a 20-year-old, which was um an experience in itself. Um and then injuries came along and it sort of derailed the trajectory that I was on, which is fine. That's um but I guess I had optimism to play for a long time and be a successful footballer, and then the injuries sort of challenged me a lot through that period. So um yeah, when I got to the end, when I was 28, I was sort of like, I I know exactly what I want to do next. Am I just delaying the inevitable, or should I launch into it and really try to make a career? Um, I met, as I said, I've met some incredible people along the journey, but one person in particular, John Hills, who you'd know as the um, you know, well-regarded wallabies captain. Yeah, he I sat down with him a few times, but he said to me, Jack, you're not retiring from footy, you're actually starting a whole new career. And it's just a slight little shift in your mindset.

SPEAKER_02: 14:53

Gren Hackett talks about that as well.

SPEAKER_01: 14:55

It's like it's it's a slightest little shift, but it's like you're not finishing something that you've you know worked your whole life to do. It's actually you're should be excited about the next career you're about to embark on. And I took that approach and um yeah, literally haven't looked back since.

SPEAKER_02: 15:11

Yeah, well, I think John Eles will listen to the podcast because um we had Luke Jones on the podcast, and actually Luke used to play for the wallabies, and uh Johnny's is is one of his mentors. So uh Luke was saying that uh John Eles has listened to the podcast. So I'm sure all the others listen to your podcast too. So they'll give him a shout out if he's listening. Uh well that's I think that's really important and that mindset. Um and I think would you say a lot of sports professionals that you know do finish their career in sport really struggle to look forward and maybe too busy looking a little bit backwards?

SPEAKER_01: 15:47

Definitely. And whether it's the um they're not content with what they achieved through their career or they're unsure as to what they want to do next, there's lots of different reasons. But the biggest thing that I see with athletes transitioning is they're a bit lost for a period of time, which is normal. You go from, you know, if you've had a 10 to 15 year career, you're told literally where to be, what to do at every moment of the day. You're told what to eat, you know, how fit you should be. When you can drink, when you can't drink. Exactly. So you can go out, you can't go out. Exactly. So um, you know, that's just removed and suddenly you're left to your own devices. It's a unique situation to be in. And some people haven't been in that situation since they were 18, but that's coming out of a school system where you're sort of told similar. Um so I see a lot of people struggle through that, and um, that's why I encourage a lot of young athletes or athletes of any age to figure out what their passions are away from the game and try to start pursuing as to what that might look like in the event that your career's done. The earlier you can do that, the better off you'll be. And you may still take years to figure that out, and you may not figure that out, but at least you've started that journey.

SPEAKER_00: 16:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 16:59

And when the inevitable day comes that your career's over, you're better positioned to actually make a decision.

SPEAKER_02: 17:05

Yeah, that's correct. And also the good thing is that you, as a professional sports person, you get access to so many brilliant minds that obviously want to talk to you about your sport. Yeah. So how do you reverse that? Because people want to talk to you about you know the Melbourne Football Club being the captain and whatnot, and but you want to your mindset needs to be, I want to learn from you as well. So a lot of what we've seen in Andy Gallers, who's uh um was on uh podcast a few weeks ago, he speaks about that and trying to tell the Hawthorne footy players. Yeah, you know, when we get these people that are very successful, that are sponsors, you know, try and pick their brains about what they do, how they became successful, build relationships that will help you out, you know, beyond sport.

SPEAKER_01: 17:49

Definitely. I um I couldn't be a bigger advocate for that again. Um and it's shifting that conversation. So, as you say, if you've got a bit of a um identity as a a footballer or as an athlete, people are interested in you and what you're doing, which is which is great. Um but I think a lot of players can fall into the trap of going to these functions and having to sit next to corporate supporters or whoever it is and just think, oh no, here's another situation. I'd rather be home, relaxing or rehabilitating an injury or whatever it is. But it's like, no, see that as an opportunity to go meet somebody, be a bit curious, ask questions about what they're doing, because yeah, it's amazing how often that it comes full circle. Like the people I spoke about a bit about the journey that I went on, and I literally my day off for a while there was catching up for coffees. I would have had three or four coffees in the day just meeting new people, and I tried to go into those conversations really keen to understand exactly what they do and why they do what they do. And, you know, more often than not, people are are quite happy to talk about themselves and what they've done, particularly if they've been successful in it. Definitely. So just you know, lean into that a bit and and and get some more out of it. And then um, you know, because the other thing I would say is that door does close. So suddenly you're the athlete that's competing every weekend, uh now you're three years out of the game, not completely forgotten, but largely forgotten, and that door might not be open anymore. So capitalise on the situation that you're in. And it's not taking advantage of it. Um be authentic, be genuine in the way that you go about it.

SPEAKER_02: 19:28

But just take your opportunities. Take your opportunities, yeah. Yeah. Because you know, it's not often you get to sit at a table that you know, maybe that runs someone that runs a successful business or the CEO of a listed company or someone that runs an investment firm that you know is willing to take you on one day a week to to shadow and and to learn.

SPEAKER_01: 19:48

Yeah, if you don't ask that question, you'll never find out. And a lot of my great friends are, you know, ex-presidents of football clubs, board members, who I catch up with regularly now, and they're friends that I'm going to have for life on the back of just um, I guess, having the curiosity to ask a question.

SPEAKER_02: 20:05

Yeah. I want to touch on, go back to being the youngest ever AFL captain. Is that right? Yeah, I think that still stands. Yeah. Because I know at 20 I was a university student and I was lucky to make it to class and alone captain a professional sports team that's in the public eye. Can you talk through that journey and and what your biggest learnings from that word that have helped you in your career at the moment as an investment analyst?

SPEAKER_01: 20:31

For sure. Um yeah, I I completely agree with you. I would never have thought that as a 20-year-old I'd be captaining the or co-captaining the oldest AFL footy club in the land. Um, but it was an absolute privilege and honour to be in that position. Um, how it came about, I wasn't outwardly looking to become a captain. I think when you're younger, you get pushed into leadership positions because you're probably one of the best players in the team. Whereas as you get older, it's actually for purpose. Um, and I think I was selected by my peers just from the actions that I was displaying on the training track. Um and yeah, that took me on a an incredible journey and one that I'm very grateful for again. Um you know, it had its ups and downs, certainly lots of challenges. Um, but I think the key learnings that I took away from that experience was um, you know, leadership in itself and what that looks like. I think if I have one regret is that, you know, I was selected as a co-captain and I probably tried to be too much to too many at that period of time and neglected myself. Um so I've had any advice for young leaders or leaders in general, is like, yes, you want to be selfless and help everyone out, but your most important role is probably to take care of yourself first, lead by example, and that's what brings everyone along for the journey. And then on top of that, if you have spare time, obviously help help out others, be empathetic and try to develop them. But the best way you can lead is to really um drive it yourself and make sure that you're going in the right direction because you're no good to the team if you're helping everyone else, but not actually delivering yourself. Um, so that was a key learning, and then just the skills of communication, um you know, delivering direct feedback. Um you suddenly as a 20-year-old, you're sitting in front of press conferences and um dealing with key stakeholders, um delivering a pre-game address, you know, all those little things that you develop these communication skills and understand how to communicate with different individuals as well. Um that's really helped me and shape me the way that I am today. And then I think you know, resilience is a massive part of it. Um because you know, there's a similarity with you know funds management and professional sport is that professional sport, you're judged every weekend um with your performance. Funds management it's daily. But you know, you're sitting out in front of eighty thousand dollars on Queen uh sorry, eighty thousand people at the MCG, Queen's birthday, there's nowhere to hide. And if you miss that kick, that's everyone's looking at you, and you've just got to hop up and go again. Like there's no other option. You know, with injuries, it's the exact same thing. You can feel sorry for yourself, but that's not going to achieve anything. So um, yeah, as I've said, dust yourself off and have another crack. And I've taken that into my next life because inevitably you've had a day where, you know, the company's fallen 10%, the share price, and suddenly the PM's asking you what's going on, like you've got to make critical decisions in the moment. So um that resilience and ability to move forward and um no doubt take the learning from it. Yeah. Take ownership as well. Take ownership, yeah. Um and then move forward. And um yeah, I think a lot of those things that I learned as a young captain has really helped me develop and develop me into the person that I am today, which I'm grateful for.

SPEAKER_02: 23:59

So going back to leadership as at Melbourne Football Club as a 20-year-old, was there a situation where, you know, an older player that, you know, maybe played a lot more games than you, you know, maybe in their late 20s, that, you know, wasn't up to scratch in terms of where you want them to be that fit, you know, the leadership or what the the team demanded of them, and you had to have a hard conversation with them. So a situation that that happened because that happens in the corporate world a lot, and maybe what learnings you've had.

SPEAKER_01: 24:31

Yeah, that situation that you just described was my biggest fear coming in as a young captain. Um, I've always been one to respect your elders, particularly those with more experience than you. Um, and suddenly you're thrust into a position where you're 20 years old, I don't know, I think I'd played about 50 games at the time, and I'm suddenly looking down the barrel of having to give feedback, um, pretty firm feedback at times, to 200 plus gamers who are, you know, 30 years old. And one particular time, I mean, the D's were going through some pretty tough periods in in that period of time and weren't winning too many games. We were going through a bit of a transition to giving opportunities to the younger players, which the older players obviously weren't all that thrilled about. Um, you know, I was sitting there in a situation where suddenly I had to approach an older player and say, um, I'm really sorry, but you're not playing this week. Um, we've gone with this decision. And, you know, it's character building because I was so nervous going into it, but now I've realised that um it's I shouldn't be fearful of that situation and I've um grown as a person as a result of that. Um and I think the clear feedback within that is just be direct. Um you know, obviously have empathy for the person because it's not the news that they want to hear. But if you're direct and honest and authentic, then they've got no other reason to complain. And if you give them a good action plan as to how they're going to come back into the team eventually, then um and continuously following up with them. But yeah, as a 20-year-old, as I said, that was a really difficult situation to go through.

SPEAKER_02: 26:12

Yeah. I think what's also important is if if you believe in it's the right decision, right? But sometimes have you a situation where maybe you don't feel it's the right decision, but you still have to deliver that feedback? Did that ever happen where maybe you thought, well, actually we could be better with this player in the team, or did it ever occur?

SPEAKER_01: 26:33

Yeah, for sure. I think you know, as a a coaching group or a team selection, you make decisions and obviously within that group you have agreements and disagreements. Um but whatever that decision is in the end, you have to back it in and move forward with that. If you start having um divisions within committees or um whatnot, that's when it all breaks down. And you see that in the corporate world now. So, you know, boards will come to decisions and not necessarily all agreed upon, but that's the way forward and that's where we're going. So stay strong with that. As soon as you go around behind their back and say, Oh mate, I wanted you in the team, but we're actually dropping you, then that's where it all falls apart. And that's a big cultural piece to organisations. Um and yeah, I've been put in many of those situations before, but uh yeah, it's all great, great learning.

SPEAKER_02: 27:24

Well, thank you for sharing everything today. Jack's been a pleasure. Um it's been great coming to Adelaide and and seeing you, and good to see you be so successful in your second career today. And um, yeah, to the finance friends, we wish you all the best for the next um you know 15 plus years of any better analysis.

SPEAKER_01: 27:43

Thanks so much for having me, Fabian. It's been uh a pleasure to be here and um yeah, looking forward to uh to uh listening into um guests in the future.

SPEAKER_02: 27:52

Thank you. Thanks for listening this week. Stay tuned for our next episode and keep up to date with Dr.Spot following the final sprint podcast on Instagram and TikTok, connect with us, and our guests are over on our LinkedIn page, all linked in the show notes, and the five.

SPEAKER_00: 28:31

The personal opinions of the speaker and guests do not represent the view of any other students. If this recording contains reference to financial products, that reference does not constitute advice nor recommendations and may not be relied upon.