Speaker 2: 0:19

Welcome. Hunched away by Wendell. He is Still in the space Coming through Wake up. He's never kicked a goal from Conlon, he has now.

Speaker 3: 0:28

Welcome back to Finance Friends, your personal seat at the table with leaders shaping the financial world. In this exclusive season, we meet with high profile, incredibly successful athletes who achieve the greatest heights on the sports field and are now dominating the finance world. On today's episode of Finance Trends, we have the incredibly insightful Shane Wakeland, who played 15 years of football across St Kilda and Collingwood 251 games, or maybe 252 games across the clubs. Currently works as an executive director and head of distribution at a private real estate credit fund called ARK Capital. He's an owner in the business and has helped grow the business by 400% in the last or over 400% in the last three years, or over 400% in the last three years. He shares experience about playing at Collingwood Football Club and the demands and expectations from Eddie McGuire as the president, as well as Mick Malthouse. He shares his experience transitioning finance and it's not always easy and how resilience is needed to be successful to transition. Listen to this episode. Good morning, shane. Welcome to the Finance Friends podcast. How are you today?

Speaker 1: 1:48

Great, fabian, thank you for firstly inviting me, and it's wonderful to be here. We're only just talking briefly before, but I think I've done one podcast previously, about two years ago, and it's nice to be here.

Speaker 3: 2:03

Well, it's good to have you on. We've got a lot to offer. I've seen we were just talking about Wimbledon and the tennis just before we got on air and we actually met at the Australian Open circa maybe five years ago, was it?

Speaker 1: 2:16

Yes, it would have been, and it's actually become one of those great days in the sporting calendar, hasn't it? For? Certainly and obviously, with the overlay of it being a financial services day, every one from the industry, whether it's fund managers, financial advisors and everything in between there but it's a great Friday, that one.

Speaker 3: 2:38

It is. It's not much. Tennis is watched.

Speaker 1: 2:40

No.

Speaker 3: 2:41

But lots of beverages are consumed and everyone's having fun and socialising and networking in the beer garden, which is great.

Speaker 1: 2:49

Yes, absolutely, and I have promised the team we'll get a few of them along next year because it is it's one of those great days and a great great way to kick off the year as well.

Speaker 3: 2:58

Yeah, so it'd be good to when we did meet five years ago, a few years after finishing football. So maybe just start us off by what are you doing now? Who do you work for, To give our listeners a bit of insight into who you are as a finance professional.

Speaker 1: 3:15

Yeah, thanks, fabian. Well, my journey's been, I guess, multifaceted since I retired from my first career being AFL footy, and so I retired at the end of 2008 and I had the education, didn't have any experience, didn't really have any on-job training, so I was jumping in the deep end. My first role was actually in finance, at Deloitte, in corporate finance, and, geez, I was green. I was surrounded by a heap of these young, up-and-coming stars. I was green, I was surrounded by a heap of these young, up-and-coming stars, you know PhD students in finance and super, super smart across multiple fields. But I say I lasted four years. I certainly didn't thrive in that environment, but I identified pretty early that you know that corporate world wasn't so much for me.

Speaker 1: 4:03

I'd come from an incredibly rewarding 15 years playing AFL football. Great work-life balance you couldn't call it work and you're in control of your own destiny and you jump off the deep end into a GFC, mind you, 2009. But it really laid a wonderful foundation for me. Firstly, in finance, I temporarily went back into AFL footy for a couple of years and then pretty much the last 10 to 12 years since 2015, I've been in property and then the last six to seven years in funds management. So I guess, when I'm very much a reflective type and if I reflect on my decision-making post-football, you know there's certainly some decisions I would have made differently, but I've come to the conclusion that it just is what it is. You know my time going back into AFL football, which was ironically with St Kilda Football Club heading up commercial operations, I reconnected with a lot of long-time St Kilda supporters, then some very successful people in their own right, and they've become an important part of my life just for bouncing ideas on and ultimately and I'll touch on that in a minute my current business partner, perry McDonald, our MD of our capital, which I'll touch on a little bit more in a moment We've become great mates at St Kilda. So it's really interesting those sliding doors moments. So it's really interesting those sliding doors moments, the circle of life where you connect with people you have really strongly aligned values with that share similar interest to you and at a point in time down the pathway of life you reconnect.

Speaker 1: 6:02

So I'm now a shareholder, executive director of distribution and investor relations at ARC Capital, so we're a private real estate debt fund manager. So we are largely allocating capital, raising capital and allocating capital to the development phase of property developments and, put simply, we fund developers in residential land subdivisions, industrial land subdivisions and industrial warehouse self-storage. That's sort of our key area of expertise. We currently manage about $450 million in contracted funds under management across 36 projects around the country.

Speaker 1: 6:44

And, as I touched on before, I joined the business a little over three years ago when we were at sort of circa $60 million and I was invited into the business through Perry he had a couple of business partners at the time and the planets aligned.

Speaker 1: 7:04

He had a couple of business partners at the time and the planets aligned and I'd finished five, six years at a previous fund manager where I'd established the distribution capital raising strategy there Learned a lot. I was pretty green when I come into the industry going back eight years ago industry going back eight years ago but I learnt the whole matrix that is, financial services of research and platform and bank-owned private wealth groups, own licensed for sales, investment consultants all the fun stuff that you've known for many, many years. And I guess it was just that curiosity and appetite to learn which then ultimately landed me as a shareholder of ARC Capital, and I think that that's really been my attitude both during my footy career and then post-footy is just continue to grind, have a great curiosity for information, for learning, align yourself with people a lot smarter than yourself and identify people who've got really strongly aligned values and behaviours, and so that's sort of in a nutshell, my last 15, 16 years.

Speaker 3: 8:18

Yeah, well, it's really insightful. Thank you for sharing and maybe go into a bit more detail. What does your role involve in executive director investor relations distribution? Can you share with our audience that might not understand the terminology?

Speaker 1: 8:32

What do you actually do? Yeah, so, put very, very simply, we are like a private bank. So, firstly, we identify investors who are looking for consistency of income as part of their overall investment portfolio. So, on any given day, I'll deal with private wealth advisors, ultra high net worth individuals who may be running a self-managed super fund, family officers who have been investing in this asset class for a long time, and I just really talk to them and understand what it is they're wanting to achieve in terms of this part of their investment portfolio. And then a critical part of that is talking about how we allocate and the types of projects we allocate to how we mitigate and manage risk in the projects that we invest in.

Speaker 1: 9:29

So I sit on the investment committee along with two of my fellow shareholders and executive directors and our head of origination execution team, so I'm really passing knowledge on the individual projects that we invest in. I'm passing that knowledge and information and transparency around how we're managing risk to the investors and really that's what I do. I'm maintaining those relationships. I have a very well-organised investor relations team that make it a lot easier for me to be able to be out and talk to those investors and build and maintain those relationships.

Speaker 1: 10:23

And I guess as a business we just run two individual funds One's the Ark Wholesale Mortgage Fund, which is what we call a single contributory fund, and then we manage a pooled fund, so that allows our investors to invest in a diversified portfolio of what we call first mortgage funds. So simplest way I explain it is we're like a private bank when we allocate debt or allocate capital to projects. We are no different to a bank in terms of our risk and due diligence processes, and once we settle a loan, we average 65% of the underlying value of that particular property. So the downside is that that's how we ultimately protect investors' capital.

Speaker 3: 11:18

No, that makes sense. So if something does go wrong, they can't pay the debt then you can take over the asset and there's a bit of fat, you could say, between the value of the asset versus the loan.

Speaker 1: 11:28

Absolutely, and the way we explain our investment philosophy. We're allocating capital where our investors will get a good return, but our number one investment rule is protection of capital.

Speaker 3: 11:42

Make sure that money's returned to the investor.

Speaker 1: 11:44

Absolutely. I mean I'd say all of the investors we invest on behalf of. They've either been very successful in their own right, they've made their money sure, they want an income off it but the number one rule is to protect their capital, and that's really reflected in our appetite for risk. At the heart of that is the integrity of our origination and execution team, and also the leadership and the due diligence processes, the legal compliance checks that we have integrated into the overall business.

Speaker 3: 12:21

Yeah, what do you think the most important skills are in your current role?

Speaker 1: 12:26

I think the number one role is integrity. That's hard to measure and you know really that comes back to leadership. We've established a really strong culture within the four walls at ARC. You know one. You know culture's a thing that there's a lot of talk around it, but it's something we've really put a lot of work into. We have a lot of pride in how we treat our staff, how we communicate internally, how we consistently communicate with our investors. So our business is really one that's been built on integrity, trust, investor-first mentality and that comes back to making good decisions based on really detailed information every minute every hour every day.

Speaker 3: 13:24

And your role specifically. It's obviously you're dealing with investors, so communication's important open honesty, transparency. You're in a leadership role too.

Speaker 2: 13:33

Yes, can you share maybe?

Speaker 3: 13:34

some insights. Obviously, you mentioned you played footy for 15 years across two different football clubs. What did you learn playing football as a professional football player that you've been able to instill in business today?

Speaker 1: 13:49

Well, first of all, the number one thing I learned was just ability to overcome adversity. Get knocked down, get up again. That was one I learned. The importance of accountability being accountable for your own actions on the field yeah, don't blame anyone else. Take on that responsibility. And accountability In a team environment.

Speaker 1: 14:15

The importance of empathy and care to your teammates I've certainly brought that into our culture and our environment, the supportive mindset, but probably most importantly, but probably most importantly, just the ability to consistently work hard and grind. That's the biggest thing I've learned from that professional sporting environment. From a leadership point of view, that's really been driven. I've been very, very incredibly lucky to work under some great leaders, including Eddie McGuire, who was president at 34 when I first joined the club in 2000,. Mick Malthouse, who was my coach for eight years. They were ruthless in their pursuit for excellence.

Speaker 3: 15:07

Can you share some insight into their leadership style and what they demanded of you as a professional athlete?

Speaker 1: 15:15

Yeah, well, we were fortunate. When I first joined Collingwood and I will speak a lot about Collingwood because that was where I had the most success as an individual player I certainly had a wonderful seven years at St Kilda and we played finals two years, made a grand final in 97. So we're setting some reasonably high benchmarks there and some reasonably high standards as a team. But when I came to Collingwood we had three very unique individuals. One was our captain, nathan Buckley. Mick was obviously the coach, second year coach and then Eddie Maguire.

Speaker 1: 15:55

Firstly, with Ed, he had come in two years previous and just his infectious enthusiasm and just commitment to getting better every day and demanding high standards from everyone within the football club. His sheer power of personality just drew that out of everyone. Whether you're a player or a coach or a part of the broader executive or staff. He had a really real passion and strong belief obviously in his own ability. But where he wanted to take the Collingwood Football Club and the club wasn't in a great shape in the early or the late 90s and early 2000s financially it was obviously a massively supported club. But he, over his 24 years he took that to. Or 22 or 23 years he took that to an incredible, incredible level.

Speaker 3: 16:47

I think the largest club in the country now.

Speaker 1: 16:50

It is, yes, yes, the highest supported, and performance always helps that. I think we've elevated to the next level. The last three years under Craig Mick was the same, but different, just was ruthless, set incredible standards. He understood people very, very well. He knew the players that he had to prod and push and the ones that he had enormous amount of trust in. He knew he could go and let them have their space and continue to be professionals. But Mick's biggest strength, I believe, was he never allowed complacency to set in, even if we'd won 10 in a row. His ability to observe just little elements of complacency, whether that be in training or in the gym. Or you know a couple of players getting late to training in the mornings, he'd pick it up and he never had any hesitation to tell them, whether it's in front of the group or behind closed doors, and he knew which ones to push and prod.

Speaker 3: 17:54

And did you ever get a talking to? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Can you share an experience?

Speaker 1: 18:01

No one missed the hairdryer of me, even the captain. And oh look, well I did. One of the best ones was in my last year. I played my 250th game and I'd had a bad hip towards the end of the year and he arrested me in round. I think it might have been round 21 and 22. And anyway, my great mate, simon Prestigiacomo, that I played alongside he had been injured pretty much all year. He brought him into the side in the first final against Adelaide. Anyway, mick, to his credit, I was probably sulking a little bit, very disappointed, thought I'd played my last game of AFL footy so I was pretty disappointed that I didn't have that opportunity. And then he just absolutely gave it to me for sulking and not being the team player. And he was right and he demanded that whether you're playing or not playing, he demanded incredibly high standards of behaviour and in hindsight he was right. I was selfish and fortunately Presti got injured the week after and I come in for my last game against the Saints.

Speaker 1: 19:21

So I quite often think back that you know you can think selfishly about a moment like that as a player, but you can also look at it from Mick's point of view and that was an insight into him just driving these standards that it's team first and that was the hardest thing about playing AFL footy. It's an individual sport within a team environment and sometimes your biggest competitors are your teammates. But he had just that magic ingredient to be able to demand that from every player within the group and in the squad.

Speaker 3: 19:59

Yeah, and at what point did you talk about finishing up last game in 2008, was it?

Speaker 1: 20:07

Yes.

Speaker 3: 20:07

Against St Kilda. Was that a final?

Speaker 1: 20:09

That was a final, ironically, against St Kilda we kicked terribly. I think we kicked nine goals, 18, and the Saints kicked 15 goals seven.

Speaker 3: 20:20

Not that you can remember anything.

Speaker 1: 20:23

I've got a funny thing for numbers but not all numbers and I knew mentally and physically I still was okay.

Speaker 1: 20:33

I had a bit of a hip problem but I could have gone around one more year. But I think you reach that moment as a player and we had the emergence of Benny Reid and Nathan Brown, who would both become premiership players two years later, in 2010. And you know, when you get older, you take on these mentoring roles. As hard as it is, you're sort of passing the baton to that next generation of players, which is a sort of a funny situation because your competitor in you just wants to squeeze out every little element and wants to squeeze out another game, another season. But you sort of reach that point of calmness, I think, and I certainly did, after that game. I'd certainly thought about it before that night, but I just made that decision after the game and I didn't want any fanfare it's not how I played my footy and I just quietly yeah retired after the game and not like these days they roll out the players and put them up in press conferences and splash them over.

Speaker 2: 21:38

Instagram.

Speaker 1: 21:39

It's fantastic what they do these days. It's incredible from a supporter's point of view.

Speaker 3: 21:43

Yeah, it is good. And so at what point did you realise? Well, what point did you start getting ready for life after footy?

Speaker 1: 21:51

Probably when I got sacked by the Saints in end of 2000. Yeah, yeah. So I'd played 94, 90. Well, I'd played 90 games going into the 2000 season. Unfortunately I got a serious Achilles partial rupture of my left. Achilles end up having an operation and unfortunately I spent about six, seven weeks in Mercy Hospital in East Melbourne with an Achilles infection.

Speaker 1: 22:18

So skin grafts and whatever else Talk about resilience, it'd be hard to come back from that yeah, yeah yeah, and you know, as anyone who's played 15 years or just have these, you know it's certainly not a you know, a smooth sailing and linear path of improvement.

Speaker 1: 22:37

You know you have a lot of bumps along the road and it's those really tough moments, mentally and physically, where you reflect on it. It builds this residue inside you that makes you tougher and you know, it gives you just an appetite to get better every day in all parts of your life. So, bang, malcolm Blyde had come on board as a coach and I was sacked after playing pretty much every game of 98, 99. So that was a pretty sobering moment. You know, up until then I'd done an undergrad science degree, so my brother and I had a real curiosity and appetite to learn Not overly smart but a bit of a grinder and that was sort of at a stage when I was 25, 26 and and didn't really know what I wanted to do.

Speaker 1: 23:22

it's it's that is one of the challenging things when you're in the cut and thrust of of being a professional athlete is to is to really think about it in depth, of of what you want to do post footy. But that was the fork in the road for me. I was sacked and then suddenly it was like, oh geez, footy career's over at 25, 26. And I had visions of playing through to my early 30s. And so it was that moment I enrolled in an MBA, a Master's of Business in Accounting and Finance.

Speaker 1: 23:51

My first year at uni I had a great one of the players who had been recruited to the club, who had become one of my great mates at Collingwood, jimmy Clement. He'd started an MBA at University of Melbourne and I thought, well, I might do that. I'll just do that. So I did that for part-time for six years and started a young family, and it was the best thing I did. I talk about growth, as one it's about education, one it's about training and then one it's about experience. So I had the education.

Speaker 1: 24:27

I didn't have any experience with work.

Speaker 1: 24:30

I worked part-time with a private equity firm, a couple of days a week in my last year, and then I just got out on the hustle and managed to land this job at Deloitte.

Speaker 1: 24:40

So I come out, jumped off the deep end and I had wonderful experience within the four walls and great networks, and I've met some wonderful people who've come from very successful working backgrounds CEOs, cfos, successful business people but really didn't know how I could tap my skill set and my relationships, so I thought the best place to start would be at a big four firm.

Speaker 1: 25:08

So, yeah, that was really the start of my journey and I honestly reflect and admit that you know, up until 40, my role at the Saints was made redundant. So I quite often joke, I've been sacked by the Saints twice and I'm sure there's been a lot of others who've been sacked twice by the Saints over the years as well. But I got to 40 and it was like that real sliding doors moment. Admittedly, I'd probably lost a little bit of ambition a young family, all the tough things that I'm sure a lot of people out there go through in their life of managing, of being an okay husband, a good dad, building a career and all the pressures that come, and building that financial pathway. And I made a decision then I loved real estate.

Speaker 3: 26:05

Did you invest in real estate while you were playing? Is that always been a passion for real estate? Not heavily.

Speaker 1: 26:11

We'd done a few minor small renos on houses, but that was the extent of it, but just the curiosity side of it just allowed me to just continue to read.

Speaker 1: 26:23

So I actually went into a sales role with one of the large volume builders, the ABN Group. A good mate of mine owns the business here in Victoria and I would recommend it to every ex-sportsman or AFL player that comes out is to go into an environment, one where you get educated well on good, strong sales process and two, find a company that's going to help train you in that space. I was 40, undergrad, science degree, mba in accounting and finance, and I was largely in a sales role. But it was the best three years I ever had in terms of just being honest with myself, really paring back what I wanted to do and the industry I wanted to be in. And then that naturally evolved into coming into funds management at what would have been, you know, 42. And then that opened up a huge landscape and it was that moment where I thought, gee, I looked at it from understanding where the investment capital flows from whether that's the industry super funds through to personal self-managed super funds.

Speaker 1: 27:43

who's managing that money on behalf of individuals? What products are they investing in outside the equities and the stock markets? So what, ultimately, was the foundation of property, my opportunity to come into funds, managed with an unlisted property fund manager, then opened up this whole environment to the investment markets, and that just tapped my curiosity and learning. Whole environment to the investment markets, and that just tapped my curiosity and learning. And, as I touched on before the interesting thing I met my current fellow business partner, perry McDonald, at St Kilda back in 2012 and then the opportunity to buy into the business in 2022 arises off the back of just an ongoing friendship and, I guess, an understanding of what he was wanting to do with the business.

Speaker 1: 28:42

So, it's amazing how those sliding doors work.

Speaker 3: 28:45

Yeah, just important to, as you said, be inquisitive and be willing to learn and meet people, and opportunities will become available as a result of that. So can you share your biggest challenge, maybe from finishing professional football to transitioning into the finance world?

Speaker 1: 29:06

Yeah, I think the biggest challenge was uncertainty for me. I was fortunate I was paid reasonably well in my first role at Deloitte and I'm quite honest and transparent in sharing with this but the biggest challenge was just the uncertainty of every day, feeling like a bit of an imposter because, you know, there was a high degree of accountability in those workplaces and I was stuck between that role where I didn't have the you know, the intellect, the IQ, the attention to detail of some of these young grads that were incredible on Excel spreadsheets and writing reports and business cases, but I didn't have the language. I had very good relationships across different people I'd met along the journey, but I didn't have the language to then be able to sell a product or to sell a service. So I was sort of caught between this difficult situation. I knew that was going to take a lot of time. Fortunately I was able, through a very good mate of mine who was in an executive role at a government organisation or a new authority, were able to land a significant job for the firm and that sort of just bought me time.

Speaker 1: 30:42

But the biggest learning I had was I had come from being a professional athlete, where you're in control of your destiny. You have a bad game. You just get to work on a Monday. You get a good night's sleep. Have a bad game. You just get to work on a Monday. You get a good night's sleep, you eat well. You come with a fire in the belly and you just learn to. You get back on track. You get your mental side of it switched on. You train your bum off, you hit the gym hard, you develop confidence in your hands and your kicking and your kickstart your week again to get that confidence back on the field. And so you have this.

Speaker 1: 31:19

You know, I said once I was through that first three to four years of AFL footy at the Saints I'd become a pro and I was in charge mode destiny. So I never thought I'd made it as an AFL footballer because I had these peaks and then followed by disappointments, whether it's losing grand finals or getting injuries or whatever it may be. And so you're so used to having this routine and being in control of your own destiny, and that's one thing I didn't have. And then, with that, uncertainty came.

Speaker 1: 31:59

You know we all our brains are wired in a way that we want to see. We just want to continue to progress forward and when there's barriers in place and you don't have the ability to fully control your destiny, that can be really tough mentally. And that was probably the biggest challenge I had trying to be a good husband, trying to be in the moment with kids while you're juggling a career, trying to be a good dad, good role model. I was juggling part-time commentary the first three years out while managing the corporate role and probably in reflection I'd probably burnt myself out at some stage. But my attitude was just keep pushing, keep grinding and I eventually got through that and that held me in good stead.

Speaker 3: 32:49

So what advice would you give to someone that maybe is about 250 games across the Pies and the Saints and transitioning to their next professional career? Is it just be resilient, just continue. It's not going to be easy.

Speaker 1: 33:04

Yep, resilience, use the same attributes you did playing footy. I would say arguably the most important one is to find a mentor, ideally a boss in the workplace you're going into. That's going to really back you, really give you the pathway, the development pathway that allows you to become experienced, allows you to build confidence in a particular area of occupation, and I think that's arguably the most important thing. It's your own personal attributes and what you build over a long period of time, but it's also identifying someone who can help you and support you as a mentor with your journey through thick and thin, through good times, through bad times, through changes in the economy which may impact a business or not.

Speaker 1: 34:00

That's probably my biggest learning and I guess, on reflection, not kicking yourself too much for not having the perfect day at work or not progressing that week or that month or that year, because ultimately, life's got a funny way of working out. If you just continue to grind and continue to back up every day, someone you meet five years ago you may bump into and they may help you in all different types of ways. You know my current business partner, which I touched on a couple of times. It's weird.

Speaker 1: 34:44

You know, 10 years later, we caught up personally and the planets aligned. He needed someone like me and the planets aligned, he needed someone like me. I couldn't have had the success and relative success in our current business without him and vice versa. So it's meeting good people along the way being curious, just I call it. Adding to my toolbox or adding to my tool kit along the way being curious, just I call it. Adding to my toolbox or adding to my cool toolkit along the way is arguably what allows you to get to where you get.

Speaker 3: 35:19

It's interesting. You say that because we had Andy Gowers on the podcast and he spoke about you know he used to be a football player for Hawthorne and Brisbane and he talks about you know, telling he's president now of the club and he regularly tells the players. You know, when you have functions, be curious, talk to members, talk to people at their corporate functions, find out what they do, learn about what they do. It opens up your mind and gives you an opportunity that will be, you know, a potential opportunity of the future.

Speaker 1: 35:48

Absolutely, and that's what football clubs. I was fortunate that I had two great football clubs with really strong networks from a business side point of view, and I don't think I ever went into meeting people with a curiosity that they could help me. We come from a small. My brother and I come from a small country town on the air peninsula of South Australia called Kimber, and us meeting people and getting to know people with the heart of that really comes down to getting to know them as individuals. You know, first and foremost, and that's held us in really good stead.

Speaker 3: 36:27

Yeah, and you're a twin from my understanding.

Speaker 1: 36:30

I am I'm an identical twin. Yeah, yeah, you're a twin. From my understanding, I am. I'm an identical twin. Yeah, yeah. So Daryl's been a very successful pharmacist in Adelaide and has owned different pharmacies through New South Wales and Victoria and Northern Territory over his journey. So, yeah, I mean he's arguably been the most influential person in my life because we've rode the ups and downs, we've been through grand final losses, he's obviously won a premiership and we've been, in a way, each other's coaches. We've leaned on each other in the tough times and, you know, celebrated our successes in the good times, and that continues on to this day, which is fantastic.

Speaker 3: 37:16

And that would be a big help for you, having you know your brother. How many games did your brother play? Similar amounts.

Speaker 1: 37:24

Yeah, he played nine more games than me. He played 261. I played 252 and I played 15 years. I lost an entire season, obviously, at the Saints, but yeah yeah, so that was a bit of fun.

Speaker 3: 37:37

Yeah, and now you also. You've got a family. I know you've got a daughter who's about 19. You've got two daughters, is that right?

Speaker 1: 37:44

I've got a son and a daughter. So my daughter's 21,. Charlie, she's going well. She's doing marketing comms out at Caulfield, monash, and she's going well. And then my son's 19. He was doing science at Monash and he's actually embarked three or four months ago on a pro kick journey, which is the punting program.

Speaker 3: 38:12

Oh, okay.

Speaker 1: 38:15

That's Nathan Chapman, former Brisbane Lions and Hawthorne player, a Green Bay Packers punter. He developed the program going back about 15 years ago now and it's really about placing young lads into colleges on full-ride scholarships. So he's on his own journey and it's been great for him and, yeah, everyone's happy and it's all that matters.

Speaker 3: 38:38

Oh, that's good. Well, shane, it's been a pleasure. Thank you for coming on the Finance Friends podcast. You provide really good insight into your career as a footballer and also, more importantly, your career as a finance professional. So, thank you. We wish you all the best as a director, executive director of our capital and the business hopefully continues to grow.

Speaker 1: 38:57

Thanks, fabian, really appreciate the opportunity and look forward to listening to your other podcasts. Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 3: 39:08

Thanks for listening this week. Stay tuned for our next episode and keep up to date with us by following the Finance Friends podcast on Instagram and TikTok Plus. Connect with us and our guests over on our LinkedIn page, all linked in the show notes.

Speaker 2: 39:29

Disclaimer this podcast exists for informational and entertainment purposes only. The personal opinions of the speaker and guests do not represent the view of any other party. If this recording contains reference to financial products, that reference does not constitute advice nor recommendations and may not be relied upon.