Speaker 1: 0:05

Welcome to the Finance Friends podcast. Whether you have followed us from the beginning or you're a new listener, we are excited to have you here. Finance Friends gives our listeners a seat at the table with successful finance industry leaders. Follow us on our socials at Finance Friends Podcast, linked in the description box of this episode, and stay tuned for weekly episode releases.

Speaker 1: 0:31

Super excited to have Ray Becker, who's a senior property buyers agent, on the podcast today. He works at a business called Cohen Handler and he shared some really great insights into how he goes about being the trusted advisor for people looking to buy a property, whether it be an investment or a family home. On studying performance, performing arts and working in marketing and events, before transitioning into being a buyer's agent, running his own business for 10 years and now joining Cohen Handler. So really insightful Talks about following his passion. He comes from a family of three generations of property investors and this is a great opportunity to listen to Ray and if you are really passionate about something but you're not working in that space, maybe Ray can help you to make that transition smoothly. Good morning, ray Becker. Welcome to Finance Fred Podcast. How are you today?

Speaker 2: 1:34

Good morning, Fabian. Thank you for having me Doing well.

Speaker 1: 1:38

Thank you for coming in. We met not so long ago at an industry event, which was great. We had a good chat and you told me about your background. Are you currently working as a senior buyers agent in property? Is that right?

Speaker 2: 1:51

That's correct. I've just joined the team at Cohen Handler who've set up shop here in Melbourne, so we're now officially national after 10 years of being self-employed, which is a nice transition. Having, I guess, a boss for the first time in 10 years is a little bit of a difference as well, but a great team and a whole new environment in terms of that buying advocacy space in Melbourne.

Speaker 1: 2:11

And what does a for an audience that doesn't know what does a buyer's agent actually do?

Speaker 2: 2:19

We do a whole gamut of things, but the end services of what we provide are to buy you the best house in the best area at the best possible price. I guess that's the end of the transactional side, but before that there's a whole lot of conversations about the what, the who, the when, the why, the quality of life versus wealth creation, the strategic approach to buying property and all those harder conversations before people look pen to paper. Because when the average entry into the market is a million dollars and then some in Victoria and Sydney, it's good to have those conversations prior and have those harder conversations with our clients to make sure that they're doing the right thing strategically, financially and emotionally.

Speaker 1: 3:02

So I guess it's like running you never learn how to run, but you end up running. And a lot of people never learn how to buy property, but almost everyone buys a property. So you help them the journey to understand property and the process of what's involved in buying a property.

Speaker 2: 3:21

The running analogy is a very good one, because I've just re-entered that space and, yes, anyone can run. But you've got to listen to your body, you've got to listen to the environment, you've got to listen to what people say. The advice of those little trinkets certainly make pounding the pavement a lot easier. It's a wonderful analogy, Fabian. Yes, buying property is easy. You go to an auction, stick up your hand and as long as your hand is the last one in the air, that asset is yours.

Speaker 2: 3:55

But a lot of people get it wrong. A lot of people don't consider what they're about to commit to around the finances or around that journey, don't have an understanding of the transactional costs and you're spot on. Most people will buy one, two or, if they're lucky, three properties in their life when they're entering the market, when they've got their family home and when they downsize at the tail end of their life. So if they're lucky, they'll do it three times a year. But the reality of what I've seen over the years is most people will spend more time trying on a pair of jeans or a pair of shoes or looking at some new AV equipment versus what they'll do actually buying a house in terms of their due diligence.

Speaker 1: 4:28

And what is your process? So you talk about buying a property. What is your process to buy a property?

Speaker 2: 4:38

My process is more holistic, being a third-generation property person understanding the ebbs and flows of what the market can do. There's harder conversations around, as I mentioned before, the quality of life versus wealth creation and getting that balance right. For me, it's those questions around why are you buying? What are you trying to achieve, where will you be in five years, 10 years, 20 years, how the asset potentially fits into your investment portfolio as well strategically as well as objectively and making sure that it ticks all the boxes for what you're trying to achieve. It's very easy to buy a property for $1 million, $2 million, $3 million and sell it for the same amount in six months' time, but the transactional costs are quite high in this state and nationally, so there's a cost that comes with those mistakes as well.

Speaker 1: 5:31

Yeah, and obviously liquidity too, that you can't just buy and sell a property like you can shares, shares or gold or Bitcoin.

Speaker 2: 5:40

yeah, the liquidity around it is tied up.

Speaker 1: 5:44

That's right, so do you? Well, let's maybe take a step back, because this is where you are now, but you don't start where you are because you were telling me before, when we had a chat, that you studied.

Speaker 2: 5:58

Performance studies. My first degree was in audiovisual engineering. Believe it or not, many, many, many years ago. Second degree was in audiovisual engineering, believe it or not. Many, many, many years ago. Second degree was in performance studies. So I've got a background which is in, I guess, what you call it light performance, amateur theatre, that sort of stuff, and I really enjoyed it. I found that space.

Speaker 2: 6:20

I went back to school as a slightly mature age I was 22 at the time Got a degree in performance studies, realised there was a lot more talented people out there than I was, and if I was going to make a living at it it was, you know, those people before me and that was the reality of that industry in the mid to late 90s so transitioned sort of into the back of house stuff which was production, event management.

Speaker 2: 6:44

So transition sort of into the back of house stuff which was production, event management, soundscapes, that sort of thing, and that naturally led into minor events which organically led into major events.

Speaker 2: 6:55

So I worked with some event companies, was very fortunate to do some major Mass Appeal events which had some records in terms of participation in Australia back in the day. We'd set some records in terms of participation in Australia back in the day and from there transitioned into sponsorship and marketing, which was just a natural segue from where I was into the partnership space, into the corporate alliances space and spent many, many years bouncing around with some major blue chip clients, a lot of contract work with Victorian state government beverage companies, some chocolate companies, and bounced around there for about 10 years before sort of focusing it back down into again the partnership space, but for not-for-profits. So that was a quality of life decision, worked well, was back in the country a bit more, it's not so less travel, more time with my wife at the time and we were trying to start a family which works well if you're in the country and was working as a partnerships manager for one of the biggest charity organisations in the country at the time Was made redundant, which was a bit of a surprise.

Speaker 1: 8:03

Was that an opportunity? Because I hear some people say, well, being made redundant could be the blessing in disguise.

Speaker 2: 8:09

In hindsight, 100% was. We'd just had our first child and our second child back-to-back, so they were very close, which gave the opportunity for my wife to go back to work and I stayed at home with the kids and after about six months an amazing experience I was getting restless and she basically said look, I don't care what you do, just go do something that fills that void where you know you're a man, you're a hunter, gatherer go do something.

Speaker 2: 8:35

It's not about financials, it's just, you know, go find that bit that fills that mental spot in your brain. Um, and as I mentioned before before we started the podcast, I'm third generation property and my parents immigrated out post-war. Uh, they bought property. It was good to them. We've got a lineage of architects and draftsmen and builders in the family. So what I did was just informally, I guess put a business around what I was doing for many, many years, which was helping friends and family and myself and our family buy property, finding it, talking about it, negotiating it and having that conversation around how to leverage it short-term, mid-term and long-term. It was always supposed to be a hobby having that conversation around how to leverage it short-term, mid-term and long-term. It was always supposed to be a hobby.

Speaker 2: 9:19

Got my license, ticked a few boxes and before I knew it, 10 years had passed Working for myself, built a very nice client base, largely referral, a very holistic approach. You probably know this. I swear a bit too much. I'm brutally honest, I don't pull my punches and what I thought would be sort of a negative in terms of the industry that I'm in it actually turned into quite a positive because the clients appreciated the upfrontness. They appreciated the honesty and over the years, just seeing what the industry does, stayed away from the people that were negative or toxic or brought attention unnecessary attention to the industry and just always focused on the positives around it. It's about building relationships, it's about building friends and it's going to sound a bit pretentious, but I get to spend other people's money to buy property and that's a privilege and an honor and I treat it as my own money. So it's a very simple philosophy but it's served me very well.

Speaker 2: 10:23

And after the 10 years of being solo, the opportunity came to join a small but passionate team under the co-head of the brand with a colleague of mine who I have a lot of respect for and she's got a very similar ethos to what I does. So it was largely working with her. It was largely working with the opportunity around the brand and it's a whole new sandpit to play in, but doing exactly the same thing. So that's the abridged version. I hope it wasn't too boring.

Speaker 2: 10:50

But you look back in hindsight and as a knock on the door of 50 this year, it was a very organic approach to get me to where I am today and I probably in hindsight if I had to go back 15 years or 17 years when I started, I'd probably go. You know what? You should have started this earlier. You should have given it a few more years, taken that leap of faith and backed yourself and done it. But when I look back in hindsight, it's right place, right time, right opportunity and everything's fallen into place. So hindsight's 20-20, as they say, but that's where I am now.

Speaker 1: 11:21

I'll ask you the question, though If you're obviously passionate about what you do and love what you do, and it's great and thank you for sharing that if you were to start that career at the age of 22, do you think you'd still have that level of passion, or is there a chance?

Speaker 2: 11:37

maybe that it would have fizzled out Again, fabian, with the benefit of hindsight, I think the passion was always there. It's encrusted into my DNA. The property aspect I love it, I love talking about it, I love being part of it. Being on building sites, watching Dad grow up and take us out to be part of it as well all lay that legacy. What I don't think I had at that age was the experience and understanding what the financials are, being able to talk around that level of high net worth individuals, just having that communication and experience which just comes with age, and doing those amazing things that I got to do over the years talking with different stakeholders, understanding what people's objectives are, being able to have honest conversations with people and knowing that at the end of the day, it's about assisting and benefiting, but in a holistic approach and not being afraid to lose a client, not being afraid to have a hard conversation.

Speaker 2: 12:33

At a younger age, I think I would have been a little bit more susceptible to pleasing, being influenced by the people out there that were doing things that were less scrupulous to get money. The industry is largely commission-based and the more sales you get, the more money you get, and the industry was very different 30 years ago to what it is today. It's evolved, it's changed, it's changing as we speak. We're in the middle of a renaissance in terms of real estate and how it's transacting with the influence of AI and everything else, and I think that the foundation that I have that got me to where I am today will overlay through any of those new adaptations and give me sort of a strength and fortitude to grow into that.

Speaker 2: 13:16

We were talking before, when I came in, just around podcasts and sort of my naivety around. You know how they reach, how they work those sorts of things too, and I'm a podcast virgin, so this is my first one. Thank you for having me on board. Thank you for that. There's a whole new level of how we do things, how we transact, and if you work with the right people and you work with the right approach, I think the finances will come organically through that.

Speaker 1: 13:41

Yeah, and you're quite unique in terms of you provide a high-touch service too and you deal with you know you could argue blue-chip locations within Melbourne. So inner city or not in a city?

Speaker 2: 13:59

Southeast corridor.

Speaker 1: 14:00

Southeast corridor. So your approach would be very different to, maybe, a buyer's agent that focuses on using AI to engage greater, bigger audiences. Yours is very bespoke in what you do.

Speaker 2: 14:16

There's. Yes, you're absolutely right, it is a very personal-based industry. The algorithms can only do so much in terms of acquiring the information. And the data is available sits in the market. You can work out yield, you can work out capital growth fairly straightforward through transactions, back historical knowledge what the AI can't do.

Speaker 2: 14:49

And with the transactions of buying and selling property, the psychology of buying and selling is very different. When you're buying, you're quite frugal. When you're selling, you're quite greedy. And there's always a level of partnerships on both and the agent is representing one and we're representing the other the advocacy side. And once you understand the psychology of why people are selling because no one sells without an impetus you know it's a downsizing or a death in the family or someone's passed away, or divorce or unfortunate circumstances there's always a motivation for why people are selling.

Speaker 2: 15:23

And if you can understand the psychology of the whys, it's not necessarily always about the price, it's about how you make people's life easier and the personal touch of what we do. And whether you're a first homeowner or you're a downsizer, or you're lucky enough to be in that mid to high-end corridor and you're one of the privileged ones that can buy those large size assets, the negotiation tactics vary, but the essence of what we're dealing is just around people base, so it's knowing when to pull, knowing when to push. It's not any different from being a lawyer or someone who influences policy or any of those things. It's knowing to get that best outcome that benefits all parties. There's no linear approach to how we do it. Every transaction is different and if I'm doing one every two weeks or three weeks, or sometimes more, sometimes less, over the last 12 years every transaction has been different. If it was that easy just to stamp a generic template across it.

Speaker 1: 16:21

You talk about every transaction being different. Is there one comes to mind which was very difficult to deal with, which was a real learning opportunity for you?

Speaker 2: 16:32

Off the top of my head. Most recently, I had a client who lovely, lovely family had sold his business for quite a high amount and again two slightly older kids and they were looking at buying their first house and their first house was quite a respectable budget, multiple millions. So there was the conversations around what they want and they were very modest and down to earth people, lovely, lovely, but the wealth had given them opportunities which they never dreamed of. So there was a whole lot of conversations around not just areas about where to live in terms of quality of life, but what kind of house they were after you know, kitchens, bathrooms, bedrooms, even car parks for the toys that they recently purchased. And there was a disconnect between what she wanted and what he wanted. And it took us almost a year to find the perfect house, but we did and the house we bought was on target.

Speaker 2: 17:35

And I have a philosophy with my business that it takes as long as it takes and it doesn't matter if we look at one asset or 100 assets. You can knock back any asset or reject any asset, but you have to tell me why. And it was when we finally signed the dotted line and we bought off market with no competition, and we paid a good price for it, the right price, through the negotiations. But when they called me afterwards and said, ray, thank you very much, we have found our dream home and if it wasn't for you, we would have just bought the first or second thing we've seen, because we're excited to be in the market, we're excited to have a house we wanted to have a base for our kids to grow up in, I had that moment of just going. You know what? We did the right thing and it was a holistic process. It took as long as it took and it was the right thing to do.

Speaker 2: 18:26

And it's frustrating to see a client not get what they want. And I'm a big believer of people that buy houses for the homes, that the person picks the home as much as the house picks the person, if you believe that kind of stuff. And this house definitely chose this client and I look back and I go. And this house definitely chose this client and I look back and I go. It was frustrating for them, it was frustrating for me. The process took a lot longer.

Speaker 2: 18:48

They could have easily, just, you know, terminated or gone their own way, but they went on this journey with me, and these people are now, you know, within my friendship group and I've seen the kids grow up and I've walked my dog and vice versa, because now they're in a position where they've got a garden, they can, and I've walked my dog and vice versa, because now they're in a position where they've got a garden, they can get a dog. So they were trying out dogs. So that's one of the ones most recently that I'm proud of and I could have easily just gone. You know what? That's the first house. This ticks all the boxes for you Buy it, do it, and I got paid and that's it. But the longer approach just built a stronger relationship and meant that we ticked all the boxes to get them where they needed to be. So I was very proud of that one.

Speaker 1: 19:21

You act as a true advisor. A true advisor, yeah, and that can be challenging. When you get paid, you know when a deal's done A succession, A bit like me in recruitment, where you know I get paid when a deal gets done but at the same time you need to act in the best interest of all parties involved.

Speaker 2: 19:44

So there are a lot of people.

Speaker 1: 19:44

I'm sure in your industry and a lot of people in my industry that focus on short-term results rather than long-term benefits. So it's really nice to hear that story. Thank you for sharing Thank you. And you touched on your experience, your career to date starting performance marketing events to transition to being a self-employed property buyer's agent and now working for a boutique specialised firm. What advice would you give to someone that might be? Can I ask how old you were when you transitioned? I was 35, I think it was 35.

Speaker 1: 20:21

So I'm 37 at the moment, so someone that might be in their late 20s or early 30s, that might be in a similar situation, currently in a similar situation to what you were in. What advice would you give them about you know from your experience and transitioning into something you love?

Speaker 2: 20:40

Big questions. A lot to unpack there. I think the first thing I would give, first advice I'd give any person, was surround yourself with people that you can learn off, that can be your mentors, that you can share with, that trust you and vice versa. They are the best people to surround yourself with and best people to learn off and share knowledge with. Um, there is a balance of ego and pride that comes into it and if you're going into any industry or starting anything else, you need to back yourself. Why are you there? What do you want to do? Where do you see yourself in five years, 10 years, 15 years? And how do you want to get there?

Speaker 2: 21:13

I had opportunities to grow my business, to take on partners and silent investors. Every one of those opportunities came with a whole case study of conversations around where that will lead me and what those implications mean around, like you said, you know managing staff or taking on a commercial site, or you know marketing responsibility, even legalities around people in the industry, um, so all those things sort of come back into where you want to be and where you want to go and if you can train yourself with people that you admire, that people that you respect. I think that's a large part of it, and the second bit of advice I'd give anyone is just back yourself. You're never too young or too old to learn or take a new opportunity. See where it lies. I think Richard Branson said just sign the dotted line and we'll figure it out later.

Speaker 2: 22:00

Very much a visionary If the opportunity presents, and you can always go backwards, but you can't always go forwards, and I think that would be the best advice I'd give anyone who's looking at any sort of industry or any sort of things. And the last and most important thing be passionate about it. Love what you do, don't sell yourself something that is just a grind or you don't appreciate or you don't have passion about.

Speaker 1: 22:25

And again, that old cliche that if you're doing something you love, you don't work it down in your life, and that's quite a common theme for exceptional performers that we've had on our podcast that you know there is a level of or a high level of passion for what they do. So it is natural get up and just get into it, because they love it. Yep, and that's clear from what you've shared today your passion for property and building relationships and being a trusted advisor.

Speaker 2: 22:49

Yeah, it's a very privileged place to be and I'm very fortunate to be here.

Speaker 1: 22:53

And last question, because I know we're getting towards the later stages of the podcast who has been the biggest influence on your life, whether it be professionally or also personally, to help you get your career to where it is today?

Speaker 2: 23:09

Oh, positive I've had a lot of negative influences that I've seen what not to do, which is probably easier. There have been some industry champions that have done some amazing things over the years in property John McGrath, who I've never had the I've only met him briefly. He's done some amazing things about taking his business public and doing some great things. And this is going to sound really cliche, but the person I'm working with now, nicole Jacobs, who I've been fortunate enough to have some touch points with over the years and become friends with, she's one of the, I guess, the old guards of the industry.

Speaker 2: 23:41

Um, and just an amazing ethical standard. Um, an amazingly wonderful person, a very similar ethos to what I do. Um, and to be able to go to work with her every day is it's not like having it as a boss, it's more like working with your close-knit friends, which is great, um, and just to be able to take my learnings and her learnings because she was self-employed too for almost 13 years with her name on the door just to share that symbiotic relationship and to have that person to touch one is a wonderful experience. So I'm very fortunate to be where I am now to work with one of the best of the best in the industries. But she says the same about me, so I think it's mutual.

Speaker 1: 24:18

Yeah, well, that's great. Well, thank you for sharing, Thank you for coming on the podcast and for our listeners. You can follow us on our socials and we look forward to keeping in touch and seeing you at future events.

Speaker 2: 24:32

We've done. We'll see what the property market does in 2025.

Speaker 1: 24:35

Well, hopefully interest rates keep coming down and property should keep going up.

Speaker 2: 24:39

Thanks, fabian, thanks for having me.

Speaker 3: 24:44

Cheers. Disclaimer this podcast exists for informational and entertainment purposes only. The personal opinions of the speaker and guests do not represent the view of any other party. If this recording contains reference to financial products, that reference does not constitute advice nor recommendations and may not be relied upon.