Speaker 1: 0:05

Welcome to the Finance Friends podcast. Whether you have followed us from the beginning or you're a new listener, we are excited to have you here. Finance Friends gives our listeners a seat at the table with successful finance industry leaders. Follow us on our socials at Finance Friends Podcast, linked in the description box of this episode, and stay tuned for weekly episode releases. And on today's podcast we have Samantha Sun, who is the Senior Manager, Practice Engagement and Growth for Entirety. She covers Victoria, Tasmania and South Australia, so what she does is helps financial planners grow their business. Find out how she does that. It's an interesting but also challenging role. Good morning. And today we have the wonderful Samantha Sun who goes by Sam. Is that right, that's?

Speaker 2: 0:58

correct, Fabian. How are you?

Speaker 1: 1:00

I'm good. Thank you. We had a catch up this morning as part of the FAAA and you mentioned you're a little bit tired. You had a big day yesterday, is that right?

Speaker 2: 1:08

That's correct, Fabian. We had one of our professional development days yesterday, so very busy and long day with a lot of our clients, but it's always great to see them.

Speaker 1: 1:17

So what does that mean? What's a professional development day, and who are your clients?

Speaker 2: 1:20

Yep, so I work for Entarity. I actually work for two of the licensee groups that sit within Entarity, so that's PFS and Fortnum. We run professional development days quite regularly across the year. Financial planners obviously need to have a set number of CPD points, so as part of that, we set up professional development days and run a lot of technical, personal development, professional development type sessions for them to attend. So it's a very full day for them as well. A lot of technical sessions yesterday, but we got some really good feedback and it's a great opportunity to network and socialise with our clients.

Speaker 1: 1:57

Yeah, and I guess it's really important because financial advisors need to keep up to date with changes, whether it be superannuation or other changes that might happen that they need to advise their clients on with changes, whether it be superannuation or other changes that might happen that they need to advise their clients on Yep correct and I think you know more recently, very topical are things like you know, what's AI doing in our space.

Speaker 2: 2:16

That's been really, really popular in terms of topics how can technology help in terms of building efficiencies in their advice processes? Cyber, again, is very topical at the moment as well, so we had a lot of that covered yesterday.

Speaker 1: 2:30

Yeah, so you ran an event yesterday, yes, and how does that transfer to what you do on a day-to-day basis? Or maybe let's start? What is your title?

Speaker 2: 2:40

Yep, it's a very long one. I'm one of the Senior practice engagement and growth managers. Look, in the industry there's various titles for this role, but we are essentially practice managers and my day-to-day so to give you a bit of context and background I look after it's about 57 practices. So they are self-employed, they run their own businesses, they're licensed through either Fortnum or PFS and it's across VicTAS and SA for me. So my day-to-day is it can be a combination of in-practice meetings meeting up with business development managers who have relationships with our organisation to identify any kind of mutual opportunities between mutual clients A lot of internal meetings as well, and internal meetings varies from meeting with our other team members who might have initiatives that they're rolling out to our practices. So it's a whole mix of stuff. I am on the road quite a bit because of the area that I do cover.

Speaker 1: 3:47

So what area do you cover?

Speaker 2: 3:48

I've got Vic, tass and SA, and Vic also includes regional Victoria. So you know I'm off to Warrnambool, horsham, all the regional areas which I don't mind going to. I don't mind a road trip. Keep myself busy returning phone calls to clients and stuff or listening to podcasts yeah.

Speaker 1: 4:07

And who are your clients? They're in practices. I assume they're financial advisors.

Speaker 2: 4:12

Yes, so they are financial advisors. So in our industry financial advisors they either need to be licensed through a licensee group or they can be self-licensed. So the two organizations that I work for are licensed C groups, so the clients that I look after are licensed through either PFS or Fortnum.

Speaker 1: 4:30

So they pay you a fee to help them with their compliance and training and also dealing with ASIC, rather than them dealing with ASIC directly.

Speaker 2: 4:40

Correct, so we have professional standards and guidelines in place for them to adhere to. We provide the compliance framework. We provide a lot of technology implementation support as well and for my specific role, it's around the practice management support that we provide to them. So that involves business planning. We followed like a balanced scorecard approach. There's a lot of accountability that comes with building out a business plan with a practice as well, so there's a lot of people that are involved in terms of our organisation that supports a practice in, I guess, making them more profitable and more efficient so they can see more clients.

Speaker 1: 5:17

So there's an element of business coaching involved, yeah exactly, that's exactly it.

Speaker 2: 5:21

Yep, definitely. I would almost compare it to a financial plan and seeing a client they do a fact find process. We do something very similar to get to know our clients what business goals do they want to achieve and how can we help them. So we do run business planning sessions with a practice and then we do 90 day action plans with them and keep it to two or three kind of key initiatives. We all know that if we end up with a really big list, we're not likely to achieve all of it. So we'll pick two or three items each 90 days and it keeps both parties accountable because obviously we're here to support them, but there'll be some work that they'll need to do in terms of working on their business. Can it be?

Speaker 1: 5:59

quite challenging when a business owner has really big goals but maybe are unrealistic. And how do you manage that? Yeah, good question.

Speaker 2: 6:11

I think that's the part of the role that I enjoy in terms of you need to be able to build a lot of trust with those clients and they appreciate where you kind of respectfully challenge them on things. So I think if you're in this type of role, you need to be able to do that and I think they respect you a lot more when you are calling out things. But I'm also a firm believer of having you know you do need to have stretch goals. I think you need to be able to also call out if a goal is perhaps a little bit too easy to achieve and to consider more stretch goals as well. So I think it does come down to building that trust with the client and for them, I think, having the trust in us and the business that's behind me to actually support them to achieve those goals.

Speaker 1: 6:57

And your clients obviously set goals or help their clients set goals, so they will be familiar with goal setting and, and you know, aiming to achieve that goal yeah, exactly which makes it easy, and what is there a part of your job that maybe you don't like as much at times?

Speaker 2: 7:17

oh, that's a difficult question. Um, I have to admit I think I actually enjoy all elements of my role. I think, you know, even if there are days where it's a little bit difficult, you still have to have those ones, and then you just look back and learn from you know. What have you learned? If it has been a bad day? Why was it bad? And is there anything I could have done to? I don't know, switch it around and stuff? I don't think there's ever really like a perfect role as such. Oh my gosh, I don't know. I don't think there's anything I don't enjoy.

Speaker 1: 7:53

Is it difficult to manage so many clients?

Speaker 2: 7:56

That's a great question, fabian. Look, I think for some of my clients I should provide some context in the sense of the clients that I do have. I have some very large corporatised businesses, so they would have external business coaches as well. So I may not necessarily play that part for them in that business but I play other parts in their business. So, and then on the other side you would have say single planner practices or startup businesses who were perhaps planners that were employed and very successful in an employed financial planner position but have decided to start their own business and, you know, take the leap and stuff. And those practices I love working with because there's so much potential to set them up right from the very start. So yeah, it kind of varies but I think because every practice has different needs similar to advisors with their clients, from a capacity perspective, I guess in some way it is manageable.

Speaker 2: 8:56

We do, where we can, one-to-many type sessions as well with our practices. So on top of my usual practice visits, I also facilitate peer groups. So we run peer groups for business owners. I've got an incredible one at the moment which is all female business owners, which is I get so much energy coming out of those peer groups. They are an incredible group of females who are running their businesses, and it varies from women who have been running their business for many years to ones that have just recently joined who are running their businesses, and it varies from women who've been running their business for many years to ones that have just recently joined who are startups. So those kind of sessions give me a lot of energy in the sense of they are so generous with their time in terms of sharing ideas, helping each other. I guess in a way they're cheerleaders for each other. But yeah, the peer groups help, I guess, in terms of managing that capacity as well.

Speaker 1: 9:48

Do you have any statistics on how many female financial advisor business owners there are out there, because I couldn't imagine there'd be a lot.

Speaker 2: 9:59

No, yes, I don't, and that would be a really interesting thing to look into. I I think I feel like I mean, I've worked at quite a few licensee groups and I would have to say where I'm at at the moment there's, I mean, that would make a good, I would say, maybe a third in terms of our network, potentially quarter to a third in terms of business owners, or they could be partners as well in the larger corporatised businesses, which has been really encouraging to see, because I think in other groups that I've worked at, it probably hasn't been that high. I think the other good thing that's probably maybe contributing to it and we probably won't see this until maybe the medium or long term is we have some fantastic businesses that recognise they need to have female planners in their businesses, so they are probably actively kind of looking to recruit within as well. So we've had quite a few PY graduates who are females.

Speaker 1: 10:59

So PY professional year. So if you want to be a financial advisor, you have to do a professional year.

Speaker 2: 11:04

Yeah. So we've got a lot of businesses where they've recognised internal staff who have expressed an interest in becoming a financial planner. We have a great PY program where we support the businesses in putting one of those candidates through the PY program and we had quite a few of them that graduated last year who were females. So I think it's a great profession for females, I think because it does give flexibility as they get older if they want to have family or kids and stuff.

Speaker 1: 11:35

So you heard it here first, the Finance Written's podcast. If you're a female and you want to be a financial advisor, there is plenty of opportunity.

Speaker 2: 11:42

Exactly exactly.

Speaker 1: 11:44

And it's a great profession. It is.

Speaker 2: 11:45

It's a great profession it is. It's a fantastic profession, I think. Even I mean that's probably the only role I haven't done in terms of my career. But what I have enjoyed is when you get to speak to. I mean I don't know, maybe they have a different way in terms of dealing with clients and stuff, but they love what they do. They're very, just, very enthusiastic about what they have like they can do, but they're very supportive of each other as well. So, but in terms of a career path for females, you know we've got lots of. I mean, if I look at our group alone, we've got business owners that are working three or four days a week. You know we've got lots of. I mean, if I look at our group alone, we've got business owners that are working three or four days a week, you know, because they've got children and stuff. So it provides that flexibility.

Speaker 1: 12:31

You can also have a lifestyle business as well as just you know, people think that if you're a financial advisor, I have to work 12-hour days, five, six days a week, Correct?

Speaker 2: 12:41

But, clearly.

Speaker 1: 12:41

You don't have to do that.

Speaker 2: 12:42

No, clearly you don't have to do that. No, we had a very interesting session actually at conference last year. We do panel sessions because a lot of our clients like to hear from their peers in regards to what's working, and we have one session where business owners were kind of sharing what they were doing in their businesses. That, I guess, for them, gave them a little bit of balance. I mean, they worked hard to get to that position.

Speaker 2: 13:04

But you know one practice no one works Fridays and that is becoming even more common these days. I've got a practice in Victoria that does the same. No one works Fridays and employees are happy as well. They know that they've got four days to get all the work done, a compressed week, but they know they've got long weekends every weekend. I would love that. But yeah, I think in regards to flexibility, it's definitely there. I mean you still have, like, if you were looking at, say, power planning as a career and there's a lot of career power planners out there. They work from home, they, you know, charge per SOA that they produce. So I think in our industry there's definitely so much scope for flexibility if that's what people are looking for.

Speaker 1: 13:52

And just to clarify a paraplanner is someone who writes the advice document for the advisor.

Speaker 3: 13:57

And.

Speaker 1: 13:57

SOA is a statement of advice, which is the advice document for the client. So let's bring us back to the beginning, because there's not a lot of people that work, you know, have your profession. It's quite unique, and how did you get to where you are? Where did you start? What did you study? Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: 14:20

So I did commerce, accounting and finance. I wasn't great at accounting. I did fail my first year. So, yeah, and I didn't enjoy accounting. I mean, I was probably I don't know probably a lot of people in the same space. Just get your degree and then figure it out afterwards. I was a bit like that.

Speaker 2: 14:39

My very first role was actually in a small family owned financial planning business and they were looking for a paraplanner, which I had no idea what they did. But what I did learn from working at a small firm is that you learn about everything. So rather than being in a big corporate and you just doing you know plans all the time, in a small business you have to learn everything else. So you know when insurance claims come through or when you know your advisor actually tells a client that their claim came through and you see the client's reaction to it. So, yeah, started off in a small firm and then had various roles in power planning, but in the larger corporate. So some of the larger corporates have internal power planning teams, so moved into one of those.

Speaker 1: 15:27

So give me an example of a large corporate that you worked with.

Speaker 2: 15:30

Yeah, so back then it would have been AXA that I moved into an internal power planning team. Yep.

Speaker 1: 15:36

And they don't exist because AXA got taken over by AMP. Who's well?

Speaker 2: 15:41

AMP still exists, but in entirety Back where I am, yeah, so I have done a stint in AMP but yeah, so I did paraplanning. Then from paraplanning I actually moved into kind of compliance, training and development type roles, which is great. So I think with the large corporates there's advantages because you get opportunities to move around and try different roles. So at Accel I was very fortunate to be able to do that, so did audits, complaints handling, which I would say is character building, training and development in that role.

Speaker 2: 16:21

Then, in terms of getting into practice management, I was very fortunate from previous roles with previous managers I think AMP was going through a restructure at that stage and they were looking for their versions of practice managers and my name was recommended and I went through the interview process. I do feel very fortunate for that opportunity because it is very there aren't that many roles that come up in the space, as you've mentioned, fabian, earlier. So they gave me a chance and if it wasn't for them I wouldn't be where I am now in terms of, just, you know, various practice management roles in different licensee groups. So I would say my learnings from that in terms of actually getting into that opportunity is you know you can't burn bridges, you network well, because I think sometimes people just tap you on the shoulder because they know they've worked with you before, or yeah, I'm very fortunate, I could think, for that very first role at AMP.

Speaker 1: 17:29

It's definitely a common denominator the ability to network, build relationships outside your inner circle, correct, and that potentially is a skill that may be lost a little bit for the next generation. Yeah, but I think that is really important too.

Speaker 2: 17:45

I think so. I think you know when you speak to I feel old. But if you speak to the kind of next generation that's looking to get into the industry, I would say you've just got to be brave and you've got to get yourself out there and get out there to any networking opportunity that you have. Introduce yourself, because I think our industry is very welcoming in terms of anybody that's interested in talking to you about financial planning or any other careers in our industry. But it's taking that kind of leap of faith in actually going, because I know maybe when I, even when I started it's kind of scary going to like an event and you might be the only one there. But you'll find if you do go everyone's really friendly and they all just want to help support that next generation coming into our industry.

Speaker 1: 18:36

Well, we're both committee members of the FAAA and if you are a student, you do get free membership, correct, yeah, and it gives you access to events, to conference. So, I would highly recommend it. We both know each other because I worked at a financial planning firm and you were our practice development manager at the time, and my old employee used to say go out there and meet new people, find out what other businesses are doing and bring them back to the practice.

Speaker 2: 19:02

Exactly, exactly, and I think that can be applied for any industry. But, yeah, I do feel that our industry we are very fortunate that everybody just wants this industry to succeed we want to see that next generation coming through. We've seen, you know, a lot of planners exit our industry, so, you know, the numbers aren't as big as they used to be, but you've still got a lot of Australians that need financial planning advice. So we do have a lot of work, I think, to do in terms of highlighting that this is an amazing industry to be in. For that next generation to come through.

Speaker 1: 19:39

Yeah, and if someone wants to be a practice manager development manager, growth manager what are the key skills required?

Speaker 2: 19:52

Oh, I would say you have to be really good at listening, actually, you know what. I would compare it to very much the traits that you would need for an advisor. So you're really good at listening, also asking a lot of questions. Being curious, I think, because often you know actually this is for any business owner, not just financial planning, but there's often personal drivers around why they're in the business of financial planning. So really kind of uncovering what drives them, because it's, you know, it's not about oh my gosh, I want to make you know 40% profit, for example. There's usually some underlying personal reasons as to why they're in financial planning.

Speaker 1: 20:33

So I might ask you the question what drives you in your role?

Speaker 2: 20:39

I love that I can help businesses hopefully be able to see more clients. You hear all the stories. I mean, I've worked with so many financial planners and to hear all the success stories in terms of what they've been able to do in terms of helping their clients. They're the stories that I think are really fantastic, because I think financial planners do such an amazing job. I think, unfortunately, we don't hear enough about those really good success stories. We hear about all the bad ones that have happened in our industry.

Speaker 1: 21:10

Of course, bad stories.

Speaker 2: 21:12

Yes.

Speaker 1: 21:12

Great clickbait Headlines. Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2: 21:15

But financial planners do an amazing job and if I can have any kind of I guess input into I don't know how they run their business, or you know how they run their business more efficiently, or you know just a better client experience, all that kind of stuff, that's the bit that drives me.

Speaker 1: 21:32

Yeah Well, thank you for sharing. That's really insightful. Has there been someone or a couple of people that have been a big influence on your career to date? A big influence on your career to date. I would say I reckon there's probably a few people actually Outside of me. Of course, I was going to get there, fabian. I was going to get there.

Speaker 2: 21:55

I think I'll probably have a few key people and I would say, like some are within the industry and some are outside of the industry, sorry and there's one particular lady I would consider one of my probably key mentors. And I say that because, being a female, and I mean when I started in the industry, I think it was still very much male dominated and if you're looking at the leadership roles it's, I think it still is somewhat male dominated. And this particular lady I've always kind of admired for many years and early on from my career, but I've been able to see her kind of pivot her career. So I find that really interesting in the sense of what I think I want people to understand is that, whilst you might have a particular role, don't feel like that. That role kind of is it?

Speaker 1: 22:51

Is your forever role.

Speaker 2: 22:51

Correct, because I think I look back at my career. I mean, I had a stint where I stopped practice management because opportunities came up to try a national role, for example, and I remember calling my mentor going. I still enjoy practice management, I love it. But I'm just wondering there's an opportunity here and I'm wondering whether I should have a go at it. And her advice was you know well, there's nothing stopping you from going for it. Why don't you just go for it? Try it. If you don't like it, you can always go back. So I think, yeah, I definitely look up to her because I've seen her career kind of pivot from different industries and then she ended up, yeah, back in financial planning because that was her passion and that was her love. And then I think I found myself even doing some of those national roles. I really miss working with planners directly. When you move into a national role, you're kind of that far more removed from you know what's actually happening on the ground.

Speaker 1: 23:52

Is there maybe a sense of purpose lost to a degree when you're not having that? I?

Speaker 2: 23:56

think it's. Yeah, I think there's an element of that, Like, even though you're in a national role, you might be delivering an initiative, but you don't see the impact, Whereas I think when you're working directly with advisors, and even you know the staff in their businesses, you hear it and you experience it when you're seeing them all the time. So I think you're correct in calling that out. In the sense of that purpose bit is not as tight, if that makes sense. But yeah, in terms of yeah, I have various mentors. I think the thing with the mentor is they need to be, I guess, trustworthy, and I do like that. They respectfully challenge me. Yeah, Because I think you need that.

Speaker 1: 24:44

Yeah, you talk about challenge and this has come up multiple times in the podcast around. You know you learn the most when you are challenged.

Speaker 3: 24:51

Yes, yep.

Speaker 1: 24:54

So I think that's a good way to end the conversation and you know, thank you very much, sam, for coming on. Thanks for having me. You've actually made a big impact on my career to date. I worked in a financial planning firm. You were the practice development manager and as a result of you, I've volunteered at a couple of charities that you've recommended. So thank you.

Speaker 2: 25:13

Well, your career has been really good to see on the sideline too, so that's also a great thing about our industry that you see. You know your friends and colleagues go through their kind of journey as well, and there's just so much opportunity.

Speaker 1: 25:28

Yeah, there is. It's a great industry financial planning and the, I guess, the ecosystem around financial planning. So if you are interested in becoming a financial planner, highly recommend it. It's a great industry and lots of opportunity there. You know, it's a big growth area at the moment. It's a great industry and lots of opportunity. It's a big growth area at the moment. The supply and demand equation is definitely in favour of the advisor. But thank you for coming in again, sam. It's been a pleasure knowing you over the journey and look forward to seeing your career continue to prosper Excellent.

Speaker 2: 25:59

Thanks, Fabian.

Speaker 3: 26:04

Disclaimer this podcast exists for informational and entertainment purposes only. The personal opinions of the speaker and guests do not represent the view of any other party. If this recording contains reference to financial products, that reference does not constitute advice nor recommendations and may not be relied upon.