Speaker 1: 0:06

Welcome to Finance Friends with Fabian, where we give our listeners an opportunity to be a part of our conversation with financial services industry leaders. Hear their stories, the challenges they've overcome and the invaluable advice they have for anyone interested in the financial world. Keep up to date with us by following Finance Friends podcast on Instagram and TikTok. Welcome, frank Campisi, to Finance Friends with Fabian. How are you today?

Speaker 2: 0:34

Good mate, Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: 0:35

Well, thanks for coming into our office on Collins Street. It's great to have you. So tell us a little bit about you, frank. What's your profession, and maybe a little bit about your personal life.

Speaker 2: 0:45

Well, mate, I'm a mortgage broker. So I've been a mortgage broker for the last nine, 10 years Prior to that I was in public practice as an accountant Sort of made a bit of a change, career change early on. I was about 24 and started my own business as a mortgage broker and haven't really looked back. To be honest, you know, the freedom and flexibility of the job is great and it allows me to sort of get that balance of family, work, holiday, fun, you know, and yeah, all that all in one Fantastic.

Speaker 1: 1:18

So maybe let's talk about your family. So you recently had a third child, a baby girl. What's her name?

Speaker 2: 1:25

Baby pippa so pippa fantastic baby pippa. I've got a four-year-old jasmine, uh, three-year-old freddie and uh, yeah, well, eight-week-old pippa, so we've been busy covered. Uh, didn't have much to do in covert, but uh, yeah, so things are busy, but um, yeah, it's good, it's good, it's challenging. It's, uh, sometimes, yeah, the most challenging part of the day is, yeah, sometimes, dealing with kids. There's no, uh, there's no right or wrong or no book that you can read.

Speaker 2: 1:52

So it's every day is a new day, so but uh, yeah, sort of sets you straight and sort of prioritizes uh, you know what you do work-wise and what you do, uh, yeah, every day yeah, and it wouldn't be as rewarding if it wasn't as challenging.

Speaker 1: 2:04

Correct, correct. Anything that is super rewarding is challenging.

Speaker 2: 2:07

It doesn't come easy you get over one problem and the next day is another one.

Speaker 1: 2:10

So yeah, so let's maybe take a step back in terms of you started your career, so did you do an accounting degree?

Speaker 2: 2:17

yeah, so funny enough. I actually started as started an engineering degree, did two years of that that and didn't think it was the right path for me. Ended up jumping into accounting, did that fast-tracked that with a few recognitions of prior learning and done that about two years and yeah jumped out to a firm out in Fooscray. So I got an opportunity out there and yeah got working.

Speaker 1: 2:41

And what type of accounting were you doing? Was it tax accounting? Was it advisory? Yeah, got working. And what type of accounting were you doing? Was it tax?

Speaker 2: 2:45

accounting. Was it advisory? Yeah, tax accounting. So, being a grad, you know we didn't sort of I left, you know as a grad I suppose Didn't get to sort of experience, you know enough time to get to that business services advisory. So a lot of it was just back-end stuff and kind of saw the writing on the wall when at that point everyone started going offshore and soon enough you know those jobs are at risk and you know you could obviously offshore data entry quite easily and that's kind of what you get going as a graduate accountant. So I think it's a bit different now. They sort of don't jump in doing you know debits and credits. They jump in a bit more on the hairy stuff. But yeah, sort of found that after a couple of years of working for someone it wasn't for me. So I thought you know what, living at home, mum and dad what a better opportunity to sort of jump in and try something.

Speaker 2: 3:39

Yeah, you know pretty much a laptop and a diploma, you know, and what is it?

Speaker 1: 3:45

$4,000, $5,000 set-up cost, and you're on your way. So maybe, at what point did you realise that maybe being an accountant wasn't for you?

Speaker 2: 3:55

Yeah, well, I don't always want to reflect everything back to money, but I started as a grad on a $40,000 salary, including super, including everything else, and I saw some of the boys there and what they were sort of earning five, six, seven years later and I sort of said, well, you know, at that time, when you're on 40 grand housing prices or where they are, I thought, well, how am I actually going to get ahead in life and at what point, you know, am I going to get there? So I kind of looked and said, well, I need to change it up. I need to either accelerate my career within accounting or try something new. And numbers have always made sense to me. So you know, it worked really well for me.

Speaker 2: 4:33

I thought, you know what, let's give it a go, I can always go back. You know, again, I was lucky. I've got a father who's, you know, very supportive of it. You know, when I first told him, he was a bit, you know how are you doing about it. But after that I thought, you know, he saw, you know, put his head down, bum up, started working, networking. It was a slow burn, yeah.

Speaker 1: 4:53

Had to start. So why mortgage broking? So you've told me why money was a reason. But how did you go from thinking, okay, debits, credits let's lodge your personal ITR to actually saying you know what I want? To help people to get finance for a home.

Speaker 2: 5:11

Yeah, I suppose I went for a few job interviews in banking just to sort of. I suppose I didn't know really what I was getting into. So I thought, you know what, let's give something else a try. This is not loving it, so, you know, let's maybe try banking, sort of. Looked at the corporate world sales. I like to think I'm a good people's person, you know. Yeah, some people say I don't shut up. So you know, I get talking and yeah, I sort of thought, well, let's try something a bit different, really know what I was getting myself into at that point in time. But I just knew I needed a change. So, you know, I kind of went out on a limb thinking, well, either like it or I won't like it, but I'll find it pretty fast and, worst case, in 12 months I realised I didn't like it.

Speaker 2: 5:56

I you know, go somewhere else, go back to accounting, kind of also hadn't backed my mind, it's not really hard to make 40 grand. So you know I was doing 40 hours a week. And then you know, come tax time, you know you had to do extra and all that kind of stuff and I get it comes with. You know it comes to the territory of being a tax accountant but I kind of thought it wasn't hard to replace that.

Speaker 3: 6:14

You know you have to do the numbers. A couple of deals. It's not that many deals and it's like, so you know 25, 26?.

Speaker 2: 6:31

No 23, 24. Yeah okay.

Speaker 2: 6:34

Yeah, so maybe 24 actually, because I'm 10 years. Yeah, so 24 would have been. Yeah, so yeah. So that had its challenges there being young, trying to get people to trust us with their money and their life decisions and trying to get that across. It was, I do recall, and I've said it to her in the past, one of the managers at the accounting firm just said you know, when I was leaving, you know I feel you'll struggle because of your age and getting people to trust you. You know, a couple of years later I'll start doing helping them on some of their clients. And I said, well, you know, took what you said and took it on board and you know it was at the start I kind of found it a bit disheartening, but at the same time I then said, well, let's use it, you know, let's use it against and prove it wrong.

Speaker 1: 7:18

Yeah, use it as a motivator?

Speaker 2: 7:19

Yeah, so I think I did you know I turned that pretty well and I've got some you know quite. You know, I kind of looked, yeah, saw them and trying to speak to them, and I just saw that you know they saw me as a kid. But again, use that, do better, work harder and just sort of overcome that and let my numbers, let my you know my offerings come out there and show people what I can actually do.

Speaker 2: 7:55

And you know there's a lot of brokers out there that are great at their job. Then there's some that are just salesmen. You know, and that's reality as well, as a broker you're a salesman for a bank. You sell a product, or you work for the client but sell a bank product in a sense. But it's that next level where you go into that detail and you know, help to you know, jump into the taxes side of things and help to you know sort of motivate them to make their money work better for them and not look people as a, you know, as a client, but as a customer, a long-term thing.

Speaker 1: 8:23

Yeah, so long-term client rather than a short-term customer, Correct? Yeah, Now that makes sense. So for people that don't know what a mortgage broker is, obviously our podcast is targeted to people across. Maybe that might be looking at switching careers or studying finance, or even maybe 15 or 16-year-old doesn't know what they want to do. So what does a mortgage broker actually do in layman's terms?

Speaker 2: 8:46

Yeah, okay. So a mortgage broker will go out and navigate the finance world on a client's behalf. So a client will come to us with a scenario or hey, I want to do this. And then our job is to go out there and look at what banks are offering what policies are out there that best suit the client. So you know, when you work for a bank, you're very well-versed around their one policy or their offerings.

Speaker 2: 9:14

Yep yep, but as a mortgage broker, you know I've got 53-odd lenders on my panel and again, I don't know all of them back to front, but you've got the main ones and you know. You know, for self-employed clients you end up here, so it's just a matter of you there, the right lender, I suppose, and then come back with options. And I think part of the role as a mortgage broker is not just to do that but also to educate the clients as to why, because ultimately they make the decision. I've always said the last thing I want is a client to blame me for something we've done. I'd like to educate and make them make the decision so they know the rationale as to why we've done. I like to educate and make them make the decision so they know the rationale as to why we've done it. And then you know, unfortunately there's no crystal ball that tells us. You know what's coming up. So if something does go pear-shaped, they know that that could happen.

Speaker 2: 10:07

They know the risks and obviously what we can do at that point later on. But ultimately, you know, I like to educate the client so they're on the same page and they're making decisions. I say to them I'm not always going to be a mortgage broker. You know, mortgage brokers we like to think like accountants, who usually you get with one and you know you'd like to stay with them for a while. But ultimately, you know, as people change, they get into relationships and businesses and people tend to move.

Speaker 1: 10:33

Yeah, so you know. So, in terms of a mortgage broker, ultimately you provide the best finance solutions in the market for that client's situation. Correct, so that might be buying their first home. It might be if they want to borrow money for a business real property, or if they want to buy a commercial property, or even, you know, potentially do you do finance for businesses.

Speaker 2: 10:57

Yeah, so we do a lot of cash flow, lending and things like that. So I like to think that as a broker, we offer a solution. Rate is always a hot topic, but some people unfortunately decisions in their life and you know the way things have turned out. They haven't got the benefit of going and taking the best rate at that point in time.

Speaker 1: 11:16

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:16

So it's a solution to a problem. Yeah, and we work at then, you know, we get them on board, get that sorted and then work at the next stage. So, yeah, we do business finance, we do asset finance. Super funds now are starting to really, you know, take motion. Yeah, a lot of lenders have pulled out of the market, but the ones that are doing it are doing it well and I suppose it's just another vehicle for people to invest in and while the money is sort of tight, people have got some cash in their super and are opting to invest in that space.

Speaker 1: 11:46

Fantastic. No, that's really great. So obviously you spoke about earlier in the podcast around having three young kids which keep you on your toes, no doubt amongst many other projects outside of working as a self-employed mortgage broker. But what does your typical day look like?

Speaker 2: 12:04

Yeah, okay. So I mean lots of coffee, lots and lots of coffee.

Speaker 1: 12:08

As you just had a sip of your coffee. Yeah, correct, correct, so.

Speaker 2: 12:11

I'm trying to cut that down so we sort of get in. We do spend a lot of time on the phone chasing banks and chasing clients, so from a day-to-day stuff a phone call will come in from a referrer of ours. We mainly just deal with referrers ourselves. Obviously, cold calls would be great too, but they don't sort of come in as well as referral phone calls.

Speaker 1: 12:35

So that might be referrals from an accountant or a lawyer or an existing client, et cetera, correct?

Speaker 2: 12:40

Yep. So that's where we spend a lot of our time in building those relationships, because they're very fruitful. And I suppose when you've got a good team around you between accountants, lawyers, the clients do feel at home a lot easier, do feel at home a lot easier. So, yeah, we spend a lot of time on them. So, you know, a call might come in from a referrer. We'll call the client, engage in a conversation around you know what they're looking to do, just at a high level and it all sounds all good. We sort of talk what they want to do. You know, is it achievable?

Speaker 2: 13:08

Some people aren't very realistic in their expectations. Some people have, you know, a lot of people talk, do what we call Sunday barbecue talk, where my friend's got this, I want this. So we sort of, you know, pull them back to earth sometimes. Yeah, we have those upfront conversations and let them know the process and then, yeah, we sort of get across to them and we'll get some info out. They'll start collating information and then we'll start, you know, really looking at policies if needed. Some are we won't get as many as I'd like, but some are nice vanilla deals, but they're a unicorn.

Speaker 2: 13:37

So, yeah, ultimately, then, a lot of people just chase rates If there's cashbacks that kind of jazz. So really get into the market, pull some comparisons up, get them off to the client.

Speaker 1: 13:49

So it's a lot of time chasing up banks, understanding what's happening in the market, updating your clients, submitting deals, et cetera, and then just following up to make sure that everything's running smoothly, correct.

Speaker 2: 14:01

Yeah, we also put a lot of effort into our relationships with the banks, with our BDMs, understanding new policies and not just sort of reading them but actually understanding them and workshopping them with the BDMs. So you know as much as we want to build that relationship with the bank itself, ultimately it's the BDM that holds most of the weight there.

Speaker 2: 14:17

So we build those relationships and you know the better those relationships are. You know, when you have a deal that's sort of struggling a little bit with the policy, you can really lean on the BDM to help.

Speaker 1: 14:27

You know, work on that out, yeah fantastic Because obviously you deal with banks and then non-banks as well, Correct which they've become quite. They're growing especially a lot bigger in the US but in Australia.

Speaker 2: 14:40

They seem to be growing. I think the big four were once. I find the we'll call them the old school. We'll try to remain with the big four.

Speaker 3: 14:46

They just feel comfortable with them.

Speaker 2: 14:48

But a lot of the new generation will go with your Macquarie's, your Suncorps. And you kind of look at those banks and think, well, they're great banks, great offerings, great policies, yeah. But a lot of people aren't open to, you know, considerate. Yeah, they want a branch. And then you ask them when's the last time you walked on a branch? And they can't remember. So we're starting to sort of educate people as to why other banks are worth looking at. Yeah. And then obviously there's some clients that don't even have second tiers. They've made decisions in life or unfortunate things have popped up where they've now got to go to a third-tier bank.

Speaker 1: 15:21

Yeah, and we deal with that and we work through that, we might move on and just get an understanding of what makes a. What are the key? Give me three key skills required to be a successful mortgage broker.

Speaker 2: 15:35

Yeah, okay, I think listening is very key. Understanding what the client wants, yeah, you know, and yeah, because a lot of people will sort of, you know, want finance. That's one thing, but really understanding what they want and that way you can give them the best solution.

Speaker 1: 15:51

Yeah, so listening would be one, Yep listening.

Speaker 2: 15:55

Oh, this one's caught me off guard.

Speaker 1: 15:58

What do you think your best skills are? Networking.

Speaker 2: 16:03

Yeah, networking, listening, building relationships, yeah, and actually caring, yeah, you know it sounds pretty silly to say, but you know, actually caring about the outcome for the client, yeah, so you know, I kind of take things a bit more personal. When things don't go the client's way, I feel it and I wear it. So, yeah, but no, definitely listening. You know you need to have a good understanding on um. You know numbers and what they look like and how they work, and um and real world, um, how the real world works, you know it's just not just a scenario on paper, like you know in training and when you do your diploma, like it's actually real world.

Speaker 2: 16:40

If you know you're three months late to get the settlement across. Someone's losing out on money, yeah, um. So just having some compassion as well, you know, I think if you can tick those off, I mean the computer and the systems now can do the rest for you. You know they can work out repayments. You're not having to work all that out yourself. You plug it into the computer and they do all that work. But just being, you know, a real human is probably you know key.

Speaker 1: 17:02

So tell us a little bit about your business. So you know, maybe you know how big is the business. How many clients would you look after? Yep, yep, ongoing. Give me a bit of insight into your business.

Speaker 2: 17:14

Yeah, okay. So Explore Finance, we sort of started about two years ago, so prior to that I was marketing finance solo broker. You know, being a broker can also be a bit lonely. So I teamed up with our business partner, luke Asigle, and we sort of pushed Explore Finance and kind of. You know, he looks after operations and business growth and he, you know, while I focus on the clients, someone's working on the business to help grow the business We've got. We had a book at that point. We had a book for about, I'd like to say about, $350 million, I reckon, in business written, and within six months we actually bought another book of equal size, which was a scary process. But in saying that, the gentleman we bought it from is a good operator.

Speaker 2: 18:02

He still runs a financial planning business and we still work a lot together. So, yeah, it's worked out really well, I think. So, yeah, it was quite scary to sort of commit to something like that. Yeah, but it's been very fruitful, which is good and yeah. So then, yeah, so I suppose now we've got to double the size in terms of clients to look after, and I think in today's you know the the environment, today, hiring has been a bit difficult, I mean, you know all about it at.

Speaker 2: 18:30

Viva recruitment, viva recruitment. But um, yeah, it's kind of one of those things where we've had a few unfortunate hires.

Speaker 3: 18:36

We're learning as we go, what we?

Speaker 2: 18:38

look for what not to look for. And yeah, a few of them you know been a yeah kind of been on the bum a few times where you you put people on, you call in a lot of work now because you want to feed them work, and then it doesn't work out. Now I've needed to maintain that work so big hours. So, luke and I we've got two offshores. We have Alina out in Zimbabwe.

Speaker 3: 18:58

Oh, wow.

Speaker 2: 18:58

So she's trained by another broker here in Melbourne who does really well and, yeah, she trains them. So they sort of come, they know the mortgage broker industry and they do a lot of our back-end data entry, collating documentation, you know, liaising with the clients and collecting everything. Yeah, While we then focus on, you know, the solutions for the clients.

Speaker 1: 19:19

I suppose, fantastic. And now touching a little bit more on you. So you talked about, obviously, starting engineering, going into accounting, and then, you know, working as a mortgage broker and being, you know, setting your own business up at 24. Who? And you talked about your dad supporting you has your dad been the biggest influence on you in your career, or is there someone that comes to mind?

Speaker 2: 19:40

Pretty much you know from a, from a father figure, to, yeah, to, I suppose, just his work ethic. You know, in life I suppose you don't really sort of talk about it all that much, but it obviously has reflected and has helped pave the way for me. So, yeah, I reckon subconsciously somewhere there as well, it's just sort of see that work ethic, the big hours, so you're not afraid, don't care about work and doing all that.

Speaker 2: 20:07

So yeah, I'd say definitely he's played a big role in that and you know as much as you know family values, family you know, values, traditions and that kind of stuff. So yeah, so it's really set me up, I think yeah awesome and outside of work.

Speaker 1: 20:23

we've spoken about having three kids. You're a big Richmond supporter.

Speaker 3: 20:29

I don't know anymore, but yeah, yeah well as the last five years.

Speaker 1: 20:32

You're up and about, maybe dropped off a little bit, with lots of draft picks coming up. I think you'll be pretty excited over the next few years. You've also lived out in Romsey and have a big farm with lots of lamb.

Speaker 2: 20:44

Yeah, so we run a 180 head sheep've got about six Angus at the moment. So you know it keeps me busy. So actually, from finance to shearing, you know last week shearing the sheep. So people always have a laugh and like, oh, what are you doing? I'm shearing sheep, what are you talking about? So it's a good break up, I suppose, from you know that world to just out there.

Speaker 1: 21:04

I mean yeah, Getting out in fresh air is great, and then you also set up and run a childcare business too.

Speaker 2: 21:12

Yeah, so yeah, we started up Little Stones. Now We've been 14 months operating out of Romsey.

Speaker 3: 21:16

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 21:16

We've got another three sites coming up now. So yeah, the idea is, you know, the wife does really good job, has done a really good job getting that up and running. Yeah, has done a really good job getting that up and running. Now she's obviously tending to the family, the little one and we've hired a director to run Romsey at the moment, which is doing really well. You know it helps when you've got good families and good people working for you as well. So, yeah, we like to sort of celebrate those little wins.

Speaker 1: 21:39

I think that's really important. You say that because obviously you know you run your own mortgage. Business've got a. You've got a farm, you've got yeah, it's about 150 you said and then you've got. You've got cows. You've also running a child care business that you're growing yeah, so how do you just keep? You just keep going and pushing what's the what's the success or what do you think the the key traits to, to just having that go-getter attitude? Coffee.

Speaker 2: 22:08

No, I don't know. Just, I like to always keep busy. You know, I don't think there's. I love, you know, I love what I do. I love business in general. So you know, finance is obviously a big part of it, but I love just business. I love new stuff. I like challenges. Yeah, I always. You know, it doesn't matter what I'm doing, I challenges yeah, I've always. You know, it doesn't matter what I'm doing, I'm always trying to do something. So the wife, yeah, she always says to slow down, hit my dad, you know, slow down, like. You know, you've got plenty of time, you're 34, so take your time. But yeah, not that I'm. Yeah, it's like get going. You know, I want to the idea is you?

Speaker 2: 22:44

know. Put the effort in now but at the same time not lose Sign of what's important in life, yeah, the kids time and all that you know.

Speaker 2: 22:51

I'm hoping I'll be able to get off a little bit early today and go trick-or-treating with the kids tonight. So just try to enjoy those little things yeah so, yeah, little things, the kids, you know it, it's all everything to them. So yeah just trying to tick those little boxes. So you know I try to. You know, obviously, romsey's from where I operate, out of Essendon. He's about an hour drive, so big drive in but you know I kind of you know sort of wait around just to see the kids before they get up, because I know it's a late night, you know.

Speaker 2: 23:24

So, yeah, little things like that just help you keep going. Oh, definitely it doesn't matter how bad of a day you get, when you get home and the little ones are there, that's it. Phone's away and nothing else matters. So you know, just go hard on that.

Speaker 1: 23:33

Yeah, fantastic. Well, thanks for coming in. I appreciate you and your time, and thanks for sharing insight into your career and your success.

Speaker 2: 23:41

Oh, thank you.

Speaker 1: 23:41

And also about being a mortgage broker and what that entails. And yeah, look forward to catching up again soon. Sounds good.

Speaker 2: 23:49

Thank you, thanks, mate.

Speaker 1: 23:55

And that's the wrap for this episode and for our first season of Finance Friends with Fabian. It's been an incredible journey thus far, bringing you stories, insights and advice from some of the most inspiring voices in the financial services industry. We want to take a moment to thank our listeners for tuning in and supporting Finance Friends with Fabian. Your encouragement and feedback has meant the world to us and we can't wait to bring you more exciting people and stories and conversations in 2025. From all of us, from Finance Friends with Fabian, have an amazing, enjoyable holiday over the break. Thank you from myself, Fabian Ruggieri and Sienna Bartolomeo, our producer. See you in 2025.

Speaker 3: 24:41

Disclaimer this podcast exists for informational and entertainment purposes only. The personal opinions of the speaker and guests do not represent the view of any other party. If this recording contains reference to financial products, that reference does not constitute advice nor recommendations and may not be relied upon.