Speaker 1: 0:06

Welcome to Finance Friends with Fabian, where we give our listeners an opportunity to be a part of our conversation with financial services industry leaders, hear their stories, the challenges they've overcome and the invaluable advice they have for anyone interested in the financial world. Keep up to date with us by following Finance Friends podcast on Instagram and TikTok. Welcome listeners to another episode of Finance Friends with Fabian and a very special friend we have today. Chris, Now I'm going to probably pronounce your surname incorrectly McKerkin, is that right?

Speaker 2: 0:41

Close.

Speaker 1: 0:42

Close.

Speaker 2: 0:42

McEachern.

Speaker 1: 0:43

McEachern, so tough one and that's why I just go with C-Mac. So C-Mac, or Chris, is the CEO of a financial planning Australian financial planning firm or diversified financial services firm with over 200 employees, have offices all around Australia. So welcome Chris to the podcast. How are you today?

Speaker 2: 1:09

Very good mate. Yes, very good. Very excited to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

Speaker 1: 1:14

Well, it's good to have you here. We've become close friends over the last few years and it's good to see you, so maybe just run through a little bit of your background, chris, and start with maybe what you do today and maybe a little bit as to background, chris, and start with maybe what you do today and maybe a little bit as to how you got to where you are today.

Speaker 2: 1:31

Okay, well, yeah, run a financial planning business. Well, as you said, probably more of a general finance business. So we do have lending, accounting, financial planning, we've done general insurance, so quite a few different disciplines. Predominantly, it is a financial planning business. That's where most of our staff and most of our revenue kind of comes from. I do quite a bit on the mergers and acquisitions, so we do a lot of acquisitions as of late, but a bit of a generalist as well. So I would be, as you mentioned, the CEO of the firm. So you do get pulled into a lot of situations and it's a lot of kind of problem solving with your managers, your senior staff, different people like that, and training up the junior people, so on and so forth. But a lot of my time is focused on mergers and acquisitions at the moment.

Speaker 2: 2:26

So I do quite a few of buying firms, bringing them in, amalgamating them and giving them off to different teams that then take it from there.

Speaker 1: 2:34

Yeah, fantastic. So when you talk about, if we look at your day to day, it would be quite diverse depending on what you've got, on whether there's a, I guess, an acquisition opportunity on Is there a certain way you start the day or is there a morning meeting you focus on where you get your senior leaders? Is this what we're going to focus on? Can you talk the audience through that?

Speaker 2: 2:55

Yeah, look, when I wake up I probably check the markets first thing. You know, phone what did the overseas markets do? Personal interest, you know, it's not that it really affects my day-to-day so much, but working in finance and working in investments and all those bits and pieces, very curious to kind of know how things went overseas. May, you know, check Bloomberg, afr just now all on the phone the Australian Financial Review and just kind of getting updated on any kind of events that may have happened From there. I got three small kids so they usually don't go to school till probably about 10 past eight, so it's usually a pretty slow morning you know, they're running a muckus.

Speaker 2: 3:38

I like to spend a little bit of time with them, get my two or three coffees in. I'm a big runner, so you know, at the moment I'm probably running 75 to 80 kilometers a week. Um, there's times where, you know, during covet it was probably, you know, peaking at around 200 kilometers a week wow um.

Speaker 2: 3:56

So I did, you know, uh, quite a few marathons and uh, a number of different running events, but I like to kind of get my exercise done in the morning yeah, it's usually a run, um, and then get back and I might not get in the office until 9, 30 or something along those kind of lines. So you know, time of the kids, coffee in the morning, get my run done yeah, check the market, see what's happening overnight.

Speaker 2: 4:18

Get some paces, it's usually kind of a cruisy morning, yeah, which kind of sets me up, uh, to go. Then I can kind of go all day.

Speaker 1: 4:25

Yeah, okay, so you've obviously got an accent and I know where you're from, but maybe you do want to share with the listeners your early stage of your life and how you ended up owning, being a founder of a very large financial planning business in Australia and acquiring several businesses over a circa I don't know 10-year period. But how did you get to this position?

Speaker 2: 4:49

Yeah, well, so from Canada. Born in Vancouver, british Columbia, I was raised kind of halfway up to Alaska. A small little town called Tumbler Ridge, 3,000 people, mining town. My dad did a bit of day trading. I didn't really know what it was, but I was fascinated that you could make money day trading. I was like, wow, that is incredible to is incredible to me. Uh, he was horrible at it as most people are.

Speaker 2: 5:20

Yeah, he didn't, didn't really make much, just upset my mom I was. I was fascinated by the concept. Um, it wasn't very studious. So I probably got to grade 10 and, um, you know, just just barely got through kind of school. Some of my mates seemed to know what they were going to do when they were going to leave school and that's when I actually realized that I probably actually needed to apply myself, otherwise I wouldn't get into a university. So somewhere around grade 10 or grade 11, I actually started to do my homework, kind of start to cram for tests, and I went off and I did a commerce degree. I did two years in Canada and then I ended up. Canada doesn't have HECS, doesn't have AusStudy. You got to pay for your own uni. You got to do all these bits and pieces. So I would go up in the mines and I would work 20, 30 days in a row 18 days.

Speaker 1: 6:13

That's insane.

Speaker 2: 6:14

Yeah, pretty hard things. And days in a row, 18 AMAs that's insane. Yeah, pretty hard things. And after doing two years and working really hard up there in order to pay for all my schooling, I decided I think I was minus 50 up in Fort McMurray and I told one of my mates I had an Australian citizenship. Oh, I didn't know that. He was like you know, mum's Australian. He's like what the hell are you doing here?

Speaker 2: 6:33

So I thought well, I'll go over to Australia. I found out about HECS, found out about AusStudy, found out about rent assistance and all these beautiful things that you guys have for uni students over here and we don't have minus 50 degrees either. And so I finished my commerce degree and I majored in finance, and one of the guys that I went to uni with his dad worked in the banks and I found out about the Commonwealth Bank, did graduate programs and I got in with Commonwealth Bank as a graduate Yep, I didn't know what I really wanted to do, but I knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur, so I signed up to be a branch manager.

Speaker 1: 7:09

Okay.

Speaker 2: 7:11

And within a few months I realized I didn't want to be a branch manager.

Speaker 1: 7:15

And for our listeners. Why didn't you want to be a branch manager?

Speaker 2: 7:19

I thought, because, I mean, the thought of self-employment really drove me and I thought well, if you can learn how to run a branch, you're going to know how to run a business.

Speaker 1: 7:26

You've got your lenders.

Speaker 2: 7:26

You've got all your staff, you've got all that, so the recipe was right. I'll take the learnings from this. Be a branch manager when I got into the bank. The branch managers of old are not like the branch managers of new. The area manager gets his target and then the area manager goes up to all the branch managers and says I need this many in loans, this much GI, this much, and you're just essentially just filling a menu.

Speaker 2: 7:48

And then you go to your lender I need this much and there's no real creativity there, not a lot of flexibility. At least that was my interpretation of it. So if some branch managers feel differently, I don't want to kind of. You know, I had all of a few months and I realized it wasn't for me. The guy that I thought had the most flexibility was a financial planner. He came in at 10 o'clock. Great personality, always chat to me, you know, want to client referrals. He's off to another branch running his own diary.

Speaker 1: 8:16

Yeah, Company car as well probably.

Speaker 2: 8:19

So I was like man. This guy is the most selling boy guy I've seen in the bank. He's running multiple branches.

Speaker 1: 8:25

No one knows where he is.

Speaker 2: 8:26

He's running his own calendar. If he's not in one day no one would know. You know like and just great personality salespeople, all those kinds of things understanding of finance. So I realized that I had the finance degree, commerce degree, had a bit of bank exposure. I went back to the bank and asked hey, can I switch occupations? And luckily enough they, let me so they let me continue as a graduate for financial planning.

Speaker 2: 8:46

Yeah, and I did all of that and my manager at the time said well, I'm not hiring you. In fact, I think I was one of the only grads that actually got reprimanded. Um, I remember going into paraplaning and, uh, they were telling me how I kind of be there at kind of 8, 30 and yeah I kept coming in like 8 45, 8, 55, like a couple days in a row.

Speaker 2: 9:08

I mean I just pulled me and he goes like you were the only grad I've ever had to pull in and like, like it doesn't even happen. He's like everyone's just so they're there early, you're like coming in late and you're so again the the studios part, the administration part I was. I was never like the best at, yeah, but then once they got me to the sales part, so my first year at west pack as he wouldn't hire me, I asked if he'd give me a reference. I went across to west pack.

Speaker 2: 9:31

I became their rookie of the year yeah, as a financial, a financial advisor, yeah, so they hired me as a financial advisor and I got one of their accolades and I came back to CBA and again I'm 24 years old, yeah, and I think you know this was probably 2008, 2009. And my first full year with CBA. I was the number one planner in the country.

Speaker 1: 9:50

Yeah, and I took on their top accolade back in about 2009. Baccalaureate back in about 2009. And how many financial planners would have been at CBA?

Speaker 2: 9:57

then? Oh, it's a good question. I think you know like over a hundred make conference, cba probably had close to a thousand financial planners, but some may have worked for CFS, some colonial first state, some may have been private, so maybe out of their retail banking.

Speaker 1: 10:12

You know it would have been at least maybe seven, 800. So seven or 800. In your first year you were the number one financial advisor at CBA.

Speaker 2: 10:17

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 10:18

And that's from your manager that didn't want to hire you previously.

Speaker 2: 10:21

Yeah, so I found out that I actually had quite a knack for kind of sales relating with people and doing all those bits and pieces. And so I did quite well there and so I was a branch planner. I quite enjoyed the banks. I think the banks are fantastic, great place to start your career. They really help a lot of people to learn from. I thought it was kind of fantastic. Unfortunately, now the banks aren't really in financial advice. They've sold it all off for a number of regulatory reasons and other things I won't go into.

Speaker 2: 10:52

So at a point in time I could see the writing on the wall and I decided to set up Freedom Finance Australia in 2012. So I set up Freedom Finance Australia in 2012.

Speaker 1: 11:03

So was this on your own, your own decision to set up Freedom Finance?

Speaker 2: 11:07

I was lucky enough to save some money while I worked as a financial advisor and the banks got really healthy bonuses, they paid really well and, yeah, I was definitely able to save some money up, and so I set up Freedom Finance just myself, hired my first staff member, second staff member. From there we've now probably done almost 90 acquisitions.

Speaker 1: 11:29

Wow. So we're talking 12 years. You've acquired 90 businesses.

Speaker 2: 11:34

Yeah, so we've done a lot, lot been very active in that acquisition, and I refer to it almost like, um, you almost think of the uh builder that goes out, buys a house, renovates it, yeah, and so you kind of get a you know a bit of a piece of crap yeah renovate it.

Speaker 2: 11:51

So we go out and buy a business and maybe it wasn't looked after very well, maybe it generated two or three hundred thousand dollars a year. By the time we went out and gave it a lot of love, it may have been generating 500 grand a year yeah and then? So what happens is the bank will lend you on the 300.

Speaker 2: 12:04

It grows to 500 and uh, and that extra equity you can now borrow against yeah so without even saving and heaven forbid if you are saving, you can use that extra equity and that works as a deposit on your next book yeah, okay so your next book again, it might be three or five hundred thousand recurring in revenue and uh, and then, with a bit of love, you might grow up by an extra couple hundred grand as well.

Speaker 2: 12:24

Yeah, now you got two books kind of growing with you and you build your staff up and and so like, like a property, if you try to get from one property to ten property, michael, we renovated this one, but instead of selling it, we're just renting it out. Yeah, and there's a. It's now worth more. The bank will lend us on that equity. We borrow against it. We go out and buy the next house, and so I kind of think of mergers and acquisitions a bit like that. You have to be careful about which ones you buy and what price you pay. So there is a bit of shopping around and know-how and skill sets and then from there you need a skill set on building your team up and making sure you have the right people, taking care of those clients, making sure they've got the right skill set so that they can turn a 300-gram book into a 500-gram book and turn a 300-gram book into a 100-gram book.

Speaker 1: 13:04

Because there's obviously a big risk of those clients leaving 100%.

Speaker 2: 13:08

So I mean, people don't like the idea of being sold. Yeah, so you're already a little bit on the back foot. Yeah, and so you're already a little bit on the back foot. I mean, hopefully if the planner had done a good job and if he massages it and kind of goes look, I've done my due diligence on them, I've met them.

Speaker 2: 13:23

I've spent a few months going through their processes. I'm happy with them. I'm happy to recommend them. Yes, I'm being paid as well, but there's more than one person that would buy this business and this is who I thought was the best. And so, with them helping it along and then us kind of doing a good job that opens it up to a good relationship, and then obviously trying to build on that relationship and then also having multiple disciplines, being able to do accounting, lending, furniture planning, asset management you can turn a furniture planning client also into an accounting client also into a lending client also into a number of things on top of just running the furniture planning.

Speaker 1: 13:56

And also it's the multiple touch points, so you know you don't need to go and see another accountant that might have a financial planner. So, you know, if a client's coming to you and and you know they've got four or five services with you, there's no reason to look elsewhere. It's a one-stop shop.

Speaker 2: 14:20

That's right, makes it very sticky. You know the banks used to refer to clients that if they only had one bank account with you, that you were actually banked somewhere else. Yes, like you know, they kind of knew that if, if we just had a credit card or we just had a savings account, you're someone else, we didn't actually consider you a client until you had at least kind of three. So it might be a term deposit credit card and a savings. They're going okay. Well, you probably are client you would think of us as your bank.

Speaker 2: 14:32

You might have a, a credit card, someone else, you might have a saving account, but if you've got two or three, so if we're servicing you and you're doing accounting, you're doing your lending, you're doing your financial planning even if you're upset with one part of the business and it's not working as well as it should, the others will hopefully save it and cement that relationship so that we get more longevity out of that. Yeah, awesome.

Speaker 1: 14:52

And in terms of your, obviously you've had a very successful career, and still very, very young, right? Still a long way to go in your career, but can you, if you look back, or is there someone that stands out that's been really influential on your career and your trajectory?

Speaker 2: 15:11

Yeah, I mean I think you know, early days moving to Westpac, it had a. You know, obviously I learned the technical side and compliance side at Commonwealth Bank. Being the graduate Back before sales was a dirty word, you know. Westpac did have a really good sales culture. They had people there that understood the art, which is kind of a lost art a little bit now. Yeah, and I think going there and meeting some of the senior advisors there and spending some time and getting them to critique and how to charge fees and value your advice was a really good stepping stone for me. So I think that sideways step to Westpac and then coming back to CBA was a good one. Going out, I've got personal friends, you know, sam Ponte or other people that you may know that they went first.

Speaker 2: 16:03

So, just showing me that it could be done, I kind of went out and did it myself. As soon as I saw someone I knew do it. I'm always in the belief well, if you can do it, I can do it.

Speaker 3: 16:10

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 16:11

Yeah, okay, great, I've seen you do it. And also, when I went out, I mean I was looking at these businesses that were worth millions of dollars. 'm going, I can't afford these businesses. Yeah, um, I'm the best planner out of six or eight hundred planners at the bank, I'm number one, and I can't even afford any of these ones out here in the real world. So what am I doing? Yet, like, why don't I go and and try and do that? Yeah, so I got you know to the belief that, okay, well, well, I can do it and I probably entered at the right time too. It was a lot less expensive.

Speaker 2: 16:43

Yeah, when I entered because of all the regulation changes the pressures on licensees, like there was a time that if you joined a licensee they would pay you yeah, I remember when I first became licensed as an advisor, I had six months off of no fees yeah right licensed through securitur, which was a Westpac-owned dealer group, so fee-free.

Speaker 2: 17:04

Or even if you came with a book, there may have even been a little bonus payment or something like that. They obviously at that time were able to receive payments from product, yeah. And so they didn't need to make their money from financial planners yeah, which you know. There's good and bad with that. You don't want to be conflicted, having your advisor conflicted recommending product, but it made it a lot easier for good advisors to enter the industry because the cost is so low.

Speaker 2: 17:27

Now I don't know what the average cost when you include your tech stack, but it's probably close to $100,000. Yeah, pi, licensee fees, your technology stack and all that. And so if you're doing that, plus you're trying to buy a business, plus you're trying to do all these kind of things, the costs have just gone up, and also the cost to serve. You know we never had to opt a client in every single year. Every year now a client has to re-sign, and so if you've got a thousand clients, you know every single client has to re-sign, otherwise fees will get shut off. So, heaven forbid, someone's sick, someone's on leave or someone resigned, someone new has to come in, like it doesn't matter if that clock keeps ticking every day, every. You know this, that and the other.

Speaker 2: 18:06

So, running a business. You just got to make sure that you're continuously on. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:10

And I want to touch back again on your career. So you talked about, um, obviously, being at uh, at CBA, and then you know you didn't get that grad position, went to Westpac, went back to CBA. Would you say that was your biggest setback in your career? Or would you say there's been another setback that you've, you know, had to show resilience and keep pushing through.

Speaker 2: 18:37

Oh, there's, there's always, there's always setbacks. Um, I think, uh, you know, I think one thing that if you do listen to different podcasts or I think, different people speak, one thing I resonate well with is resilience. I don't really view them like that, it's just there's a there, it doesn't matter how, like the the more you do, the more staff you have, the more money you're dealing with, the more the more shit you have to deal with. Yeah, so yeah, at that time that was a big deal for me. Um, and you know, different times things came along, uh, so I, different times things came along, uh, so I wouldn't say it was the biggest, but you know, you pivot.

Speaker 2: 19:23

And so as soon as they said, okay, we're going to do that, I said, well, will you give me a reference? Because I just kept moving? Yeah, you just got to keep moving. Yeah, okay, well, if you're not lining me up, one like they did say look, you can work here, but we need you to go way out in the bush where we can't hire anyone yeah, we're not going to give you the cbd and like I went out and I spoke to Westpac.

Speaker 2: 19:39

You used to recruit her, just like yourself, yeah. So in those days I spoke to a recruiter and she looked at my resume, everything I did. She's like I'll get you a job. I worked in South Melbourne on Clarendon Street for Westpac, playing first role. So kudos to you and the job you do, because after speaking to someone, they recognized that hey, I think you're actually quite talented after meeting you and personable, and recommended me to Westpac and that worked out really well for me.

Speaker 1: 20:06

Yeah, fantastic, and you've talked about I'm going to touch base on maybe give our listeners something, or even people that you know and maybe something that I don't know, chris, but something about you that most people don't know about you, chris, is anything. You're a pretty open book, which I like, and I think that's why we get along, so Not many people know about you.

Speaker 2: 20:28

I mean I don't think there's anything to. You know, I'm actually a bit of a boring person, probably in my younger years, in college. Maybe some of my college mates wouldn't say that. I think for people that don't know me they would be surprised. You know, I mean I qualified for Vegas in an Ironman. I chose to do an Ironman the first year I set up my business. So you know, I mean I was working close to 100 hours a week Plus. I decided to do an Ironman and did that quite well. I did Melbourne and beat a few professionals, finished in the top 100 out of a couple thousand. You know, an Ironman for people who don't know it's. You know 3.8K swim, 180k bike ride plus a 42K run.

Speaker 2: 21:09

You know 3.8k swim, 180k bike ride plus a 42k run. Yeah, I've done ultra marathons, you know 100 plus k's, uh, and all that. I spoke about some of my running or so on and so forth, but maybe a bit of a hidden talent that I do outside of you know, working so much. But um, yeah, I'm a father with three young kids, so you know as a late it's kind of getting to bed early and uh, yeah, just kind of hanging out with them and what what do you think has taught you, because a lot of people I've spoken to that are very successful have a strong focus on health and fitness.

Speaker 1: 21:40

How does that? Is there a correlation between you as an individual and your success in your career and maybe your mindset around health and fitness?

Speaker 2: 21:50

I spoke about resilience and I think that you know, for me, endurance sports helps build on that, you know. I mean, how many mornings do you wake up and it's pissing down and it's kind of, you know, it might be three or four degrees out and the last thing you want to do is get out there and start running, but you just do it anyways. It becomes a habit. You do it anyways. You, you know. And how many times you get into work like I mean, I don't have to do it, I can give it to someone else, or you know, I didn't get through it, but you just you do it. You know, you continue to do it.

Speaker 2: 22:19

So I think you know, probably one of the big tips is is just to continue to push. You know, don't kind, kind of get sidetracked. So if you do have a goal or something you're aiming for, obviously reassess, make sure that you think that that goal or whatever you're striving for, whether it's in your career, your studies, you want to be careful that you don't pick the wrong goal. Yeah, so you know, you see a lot of people that finish their degrees, that do all these bits and pieces and they realize that they don't want to do it.

Speaker 3: 22:46

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 22:46

So I think you know, the sooner you know, don't be afraid to pivot, don't be afraid if you get two years in, you know and you kind of go. Well, this isn't for me Like. There's learnings, as you know and I know, as you get a little bit older, an extra year worth of study, an extra this that you'll keep with you for the rest of your life you become a more rounded person.

Speaker 2: 23:10

So person, yeah, so it's not necessarily lost if it doesn't end up in a job or end up in in different bits and pieces like that. But I think just continue to check in with yourself. Um, we spoke about what is running in that, do? I think it's almost like, uh, long distance running for me is almost like a type of meditation, yeah, and so you know, just just hitting the pavement for long periods of time um allows me sometimes to process my own thoughts. Yeah, and I think nowadays, with you know, your phones, your tiktoks, the tvs work, we don't get as much time, um where you can really kind of sit and be with your thoughts.

Speaker 2: 23:42

Yeah, and so running gives me um that, it gives me a bit of mental clarity on top of, obviously, exercise is really good for you in a lot of different ranges, but I think, specifically that kind of endurance sport a lot of people would do it and have done it for a little while. Um, you know, if you first start and you haven't done it, you might go. I've had no mental clarity and it was horrible, but kind of, as you start to get a bit more comfortable with it, um, you find you can kind of get lost and you're actually not, you're not kind of just counting down okay.

Speaker 2: 24:10

I'm doing 5K You're running and sometimes just big chunks of it go missing because you're off with your thoughts, processing stuff.

Speaker 1: 24:16

Yeah, it just becomes part of your, your body just turns into a robot almost. And that's what I notice as well. I'm not a machine like you are, but in terms of when I run, I find you know, once I get past 5Ks and then it's really enjoyable the run, especially even the first K, and then you get past that and you start to really enjoy being outside and you know, not thinking about anything in your flow, what I've read before, where you're so focused on sort of what you're doing and you know you're just enjoying the moment and nothing else is relevant.

Speaker 2: 24:49

Yeah, and probably the biggest thing I've meant for anyone that's interested in running is, I just think a lot of people that don't do it very often run too quick, and so a lot of people that don't enjoy it. They actually don't realize but they're running at what would almost be considered a race pace. Yeah, you know, for us, you go out and you're kind of whoa, like that was hard when, when I run, you know, I mean I can be on the phone, I can take phone calls. I'll chat to you.

Speaker 2: 25:11

I'll do different things like that, and so I might be running let's just call it 70% of my max heart rate, and so people that have the garments or the different types of things you know, I might run at 130 beats per minute. Yeah, you know, I'm a little bit older, so my max heart rate's probably only around 180 if you're younger, if some of your audience is younger and there are max heart rates around 220, they should maybe you know, if they're trying to get into it, they should actually learn how to run around 150, 160, and so it's.

Speaker 3: 25:39

It's actually a fairly comfortable thing, because you're not used to it.

Speaker 2: 25:41

You don't realize, but you're running at a very and they go up. I find I really struggle to run longer than a certain amount. You're running too quickly and so if you want to start developing that um, practice running slower and once you get comfortable then obviously mix in a bit of quicker running.

Speaker 1: 25:55

But sorry to go off topic no, that's fine and I'm mindful of of time because we haven't been chatting a lot. I've really enjoyed the conversation and we could probably talk for another 25 minutes. Um one last question or a couple of last questions in on personal front what's your favorite sporting team? Who do you follow?

Speaker 2: 26:15

well, look here, uh.

Speaker 1: 26:17

In australia it would have to be the, uh, the blues, oh the mighty blues in the final, sienna's pumping her fist because she's a blue supporter.

Speaker 2: 26:24

Yeah, it's been a uh oh, they've been a hard team to follow, but anyways, you know, you stay true to them. And in Canada it's the ice hockey. It's the Vancouver Canucks. Yeah, and they've never won a cup. I mean back, I think, when they were called the millionaires, maybe 90-something years ago, I think they may have won a cup or something like that, but they've made it to Game 7. So we play the best of seven in the finals. Yeah, so we play the best of seven in the finals. We've made it to Game 7 twice in the Stanley Cup and we've lost both.

Speaker 2: 26:50

Vancouver's had riots. They're another very painful team, but you know you pick your teams and you ride it out. And when we do if the Blues ever get it. I've never seen them do it, so I've heard stories.

Speaker 1: 27:04

Yeah well, I'm a Collingwood supporter, so I'm not sure I'm too enthusiastic about the Blues winning. But for you, chris, and for you, sienna, I hope they strike victory sometime soon in your lifetime. But no, a big thank you, chris, for coming in and to our listeners, I hope you enjoyed the conversation with Chris or AKC Mac, who's very successful and has built an exceptional business. Keep an eye on our socials and just get ready for our next episode. Look forward to having you listen to our podcast and we'll see you next time. Thank you.

Speaker 3: 27:40

Disclaimer this podcast exists for informational and entertainment purposes only. The personal opinions of the speaker and guests do not represent the view of any other party. If this recording contains reference to financial products, that reference does not constitute advice nor recommendations and may not be relied upon.